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From: "Amy" <donttellya@metronet.de>
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered,soc.support.transgendered
Subject: new in here and you are the first to hear my story
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:48:03 +0100
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Hi, every one.
I'm pretty much a novice in dealing with newsgroups, so
I don't know if I'm doing all right.
A few days ago, one of the worst rollercoaster-rides in
my life calmed down a little bit (after 2 weeks) and now
I'm thinking a little more 'logical' again. For 2 weeks,
I've been reading www-pages and articles on transgender
issues and I've had serious emotional swings. At the end,
I even pulled out some of my moms HRT-pills just to get
some of those almighty hormones. Weird thing is, it seems
to have calmed me down. I know, it's not the greatest thing
to do, so I'll stop it, but for the time, I took them, I
didn't feel emotional at all. For the first time in 2 weeks,
I could sort of 'look at myself'.
Here's a 'little' letter, I had written for this newsgroup
a few days ago. Most of it still is true, although I'm not
anymore going crazy. Actually I'm surprised, how calm I am.
I don't really know, what happened to me during that time.
It's like a different world. And it is somehow sad, that I
lost it. Now, I wouldn't really want to be like that all the
time (I coudn't do anything at all), but I'm sad, that I am
so un-emotional right now. (You know, it's like this robot-guy
in star-trek who wants to have emotions. That's what I feel
like now, sort of)
But here's the letter of silly emotional me a few days ago:
################################################################
Hi every one.
Here I come. This is not as hard as I thought it to be.
It's myfirst appearance in this group and I don't know,
if I am at the right place or if I am doing the right thing,
but only the future will tell me, and the anonymity of
this talk is a good shield to hide behind.
Now, you are the first real people to hear my story and
my thoughts. I hope you don't play with them.
So if you don't want to hear this, just go on, but I hope,
there will be someone out there who can feel with me, maybe
even help me or maybe we can help each other.
If you don't want to hear all the babbeling, go all the way
down for some short stats.
So as I don't know, where to begin, I'll just start about
two weeks ago, when I had a striking experience. I discovered,
that I may actually be a transgendered person! Of course,
the thought has crossed my mind occasionally and there where
many occasions when I wished to just become a girl by some
kind of magic, but I always pushed it aside as some weird part
of me, some kind of freaked out fantasy.
About two weeks ago, I was struck. It was the 'crazy time' of
the year and there are always a lot of costume parties here in
Germany. It's something like Mardigras and Halloween together.
I guess you get an image of what has happened, but I'll tell
you anyway. Of course, everybody was looking for a costume for
the big party and of course, I came up with the idea of dressing
like a girl in public for the first time. So I managed to subtle
push my friends to suggesting that to me. I didn't want to
say 'hey. I'm going to dress as a girl'. This was too embarassing.
Well - I'm pretty good in this sort of thing, so I managed to
get to a situation, where I could be 'talked into' going
to the party as a girl. I barely could hide my excitement, as
this was, what I desperately hoped for! Now to keep this story
short, I'll make some scene cuts. I went to that party and
although, I knew, nobody would really see me as a girl (with
no makeup, beard stubbles and a voice like a trucker), but
that didn't matter. I felt excitement and joy, just by beeing
there, wearing girls clothes and most of all having the freedom
of behaving the way, I wanted. I could dance, run around, laugh
and have fun, without maintaining my usual shield of articicial
'coolness'. And if anyone would ever have stupid questions about
my behaviour, I could always hide behind my masquerade. I think,
I can say, this was the best party, I've ever been to, although
most of my friends think of it as just another party. For me
however, it was a turning point. A major event. I was on a high
from all the drugs my body spilled out (and some beer helped me
to loosen up, too). But this feeling of joy did stay for 2 days
after the party. I was happy, thinking of this night all the time.
About 2 days later, something terrible happened. I realized, that
the party was over, and will never come back. Maybe I could do
the same thing in one year again, but that's a terribly long time!
I realized, that this great feeling will dissappear and be replaced
by my average boring regualr life as a student. This hit me at a
bad time, as I was sitting in a lecture and I missed out completely
on the lecture, as my mind was cruising around my wish to be a girl.
All my past came up, all the feelings I was hiding came up and I
felt so severely depressed, that I almost had to throw up. I left
the lecture in a hurry and went home, missing out on the rest of the
day. I never felt so depressed in my life before, but at that time,
I didn't know, that it was just the beginning.
I see, this letter is growing again, so I'll once more try to cut short.
So, in short, what has happened was, that I stepped on a
rollercoaster that day. And it went down. I could not think straight
a single minute and all my thoughts kept circelling about whether
I can live with that girl inside me or not! Now don't take this
to be a short, one-time experience. I'll give you a short biography,
so you know what I'm talking about.
Please don't get angry at me about writing this lenghty letter, but
I just have to pour out my heart. If you don't want to read all of it,
just don't.
I have read a lot about the transgender issue the last week, so I can
say, my story seems to be somewhat typical in many ways. I hope some-
one will recognize himself a little bit in my story, so we can
exchange knowledge and memories.
O.K. let's get over with that thing: It all started about 13 years ago,
when I was about 10 years old. At least, that is what I think, what
has happened, as my memories are covered by the cloud of time.
I ahve little memory about earlier years, and it is hard to think of
those times at all. I have just a few flashes and pictures. I remember
stealing my sisters clothes (or 'borrowing them') and hiding them in
a secret store in my room for use, when nobody was home. My parents
are divorced and my mom has a part-time job, so there was some time
to be by myself. I remember having a collection of pictures with
girls. Nothing unusual? Well - I didn't want to 'get' these girls,
I wanted to BE one of them. I used to cut out the face and replace
it with a picture of me. It looked wrong. I tried to grow long hair,
but I never had REALLY long hair. Still more than most of my classmates.
I kept borrowing clothes from my sister and my mom and from the sports
centers 'lost and found' section. It was a rather strange mix of
cure dresses, tight shirts, skirts, girls jeans, areobic-outfits and
some pumps in the wrong size. I developed fantasies about wizards,
evil scientists and stuff like that, all centered about them turning
me into something else, mostly girls. There was a little bit of a
'masochistic attitude', too. I remember my first facial hair and my
dad gave me his old razor. I hated that thing and didn't want to use
it for a year. I knew, that if I would shave my 'so-called' beard, it
would come back even harder and stronger and I wanted to keep it
light and soft. I had a switch when I was about 17. Trying to be a real
man, I was drinking beer with my friends, playing basketball, watching
horror movies, listen to heavy metal music and just 'be tough'.
I don't mind basketball, but I hated soccer, although it
IS THE national sport. Too much agression, too much hate and violence.
This lasted about 2 years. Then I came back to where I was before.
At my 18th birthday, someone gave me a mug with a picture of a naked
girl on it and the words 'At your age, sex is not unhealthy'. This
hit me deep and was a tasteless present! If I ever find out, who has
done this... - I could not guarantee for anything. Some people just
seem to have not a splint of intelligence in their brain.
Yes, I didn't have sex at that time and yes, I never had a girl friend,
and that has not changed in the 5 years since then, but that is no
reason for a present like this! (Well - maybe it is. But I didn't like
it). The last year of school, I got more confident. I never had many
friends (and I could not identify with most of my classmates anyway),
but the prospect of getting out of school, to leave all behind gave me
hope and I was getting uh 'exotic'? I picked strange clothes, had longer
hair and by the time I left school and began to study physics at the
university, I was considered to be 'strange'. For a while, I used to
play the motorcycle tough guy, then I was just the crazy snowboarder guy
and so on. This settled about 2 years ago. I still have a weird haircut
though. (light brown, sleder dreadlocks). I guess, I wanted people to
see me, to be noticed, to draw attention. And I lived under that flag
for a while and it worked out. Of course, I still collected secret stuff
and I still waited for nobody to be at home to be a girl for a short
time, usually connected with self-made sex. Last year, I had the
opportunity to go to the USA for 8 months and I was looking forward to
this. Secretly, I hoped to get a single room and more time to myself.
I had fantasies about myself driving around in a foreign country, where
nobody knows me, dressed the way I wanted to. Well - reality bites and
I had to share an appartment with 2 other guys. And then there was
this girl, that was afther me. So I switched over to be a nice guy
and I had a great time. Not a single moment, I wished to be a girl
for about 4 months. I was pleased to see, that someone obviously liked
me, but she expected me to follow the rules of the game and invite
HER to to stuff. But somehow, I didn't, and it turned out, that I didn't
really want her to be my girlfriend (except for 'posing'. to show
everybody, that I am a man). I wanted her to be my friend. Someone to
have fun with. Someone to talk and to have a good time. After school, I
spent 2 weeks with her and her friend (another girl) and all the time,
I enjoyed it, but had no urge to behave 'like a man' and hit on one of
them. One stupid guy from college continued to say things like
'go for her' or 'take her' and other stuff, I don't want to write here.
Finally, She had to leave and summer school started. I was left
alone in the appartement and everything came back, harder and heavier
than ever before. I went out to buy girls clothes in a thrift shop and
dressed every day, sometimes for long times in the secrecy of my appartment.
When school was over and I went to pick up some friends for a 3 week
touristic journey around the USA, I had a secret bag with a number of
clothes from the thrift store, some clothes from Walmart (even a bra.
I actually went into Walmart and bought girls clothes, a bra and some
basic makeup!). During the 20 hour drive, I stayed dressed most of the
time, even when I had to fill up gas during the night at an automatic
credit card gas station. It was a great thrill and a great feeling.
I'm just glad, I changed back when I was stopped by the cops for speeding.
Would have been an interesting situation. I had to stay over night in
a motel and that night, Amy was finally born. I lost myself in the
fantasy of becoming a girl and I stayed dressed the whole evening and
even the night. Also, I shaved my legs for the first time. Then I had
3 great weeks of travelling with my friends - nobody lost a word about
my legs by the way, until the end. But even then, they didn't think of
it in a bad way. As they left, I wanted to stay for one more week and
do some more travelling before going home. I spent most of the week as
Amy. Driving, Camping and visiting national parks. On one occasion, I
even went out of the car during daylight, walking along a path to one
of the NPs attractions and all this in 'Amy mode'. I didn't look at
the people, but I know, they where staring! This embarrassed me too
much and I stopped it and stayed away from people and changed back to
my regular me when visiting spots. I took some pictures of me as Amy at
that time and as I look at them now, they look horrible! However, even
this great week was over soon and it was time to go back home to my
dull normal regualr life. For a moment, I thought about staying in the
states, becoming Amy in reality and not care about home. But I managed to
stay reasonable and go back home to my friends and family. However, this
week started the events, that go on now. Back home, I waited for my mom
to go on vacation to pull out all the stuff, I had brought with me from
the states (I just imagine what would have happened, if I had to open
my bags at customs ;-) ). For the first time in weeks, I could be
Amy again for more than just a few minutes a day. I watched a lot of
movies, shows and documentaries about transsexualism at that time and
I heard about many things, also about hormones. So I stole some of my
moms hormone pills in a desperate attempt to become Amy forever.
From that time on (last fall), I dressed as Amy as often as I could
and managed to improve my image a bit to be less 'truck driver in drag'.
The pills ran out after 20 days and nothing serious has happened, except
that I think, I felt stronger emotions. I continued to be Amy a lot of
time up to last weeks costume party. I wish, I had some pictures of me
at that party to see how I looked like without the haze of alcohol.
I bet I was a better girl than some of the other guys who had chosen
to be a girl for a night. (I wonder if any of them has the same thing
going on as I have...).
So much for the past. Last week, at the depth of my drepression I signed
up on the internet and typed in a couple of keywords. And I found heaven
(I thought). So many sites, so many people with the same kind of thoughts,
with the same kind of feelings. I was however shocked about all the
pornigraphic material, but there are some useful sites too. The best I've
found out there was a online magazine called 'the subversive' and a
'transition diary' by Melanie A Phillips. And of course a couple of news-
groups. The last week, pretty much all I did was reading stories, articles,
diary excepts and FAQs about the issue of transgenderism. It would be too
much to describe, what I went through but I think, a 50+ page diary of
myself gives you a good impression of the rollercoaster ride I had been on.
I saw so many relationships, equal thoughts and little enlightments in all
these articles, but most striking was the diary of Melanie. Even though she
is a lot older and married with children, I cried a lot and laughed a lot
at some of her entries. I felt joy, sadness, excitement and embareassement.
And it was wonderful and sad at the same time. I used to hide my emotions,
supress them with a hammer of coolness. I acted like Mr Spock from
Star Trek most of my life. But here, I couldn't hold back. Probably the last
week, I shed more tears, than in my whole life. It was striking to see all
the things that are happening to me in my mind written down by someone else.
At one point, it happened, that I wrote down some thoughts or experiences in
my diary and the very next minute, I read the exactly same thing in the
diary of Mel. Now I was on a mission. A mission to find my inner self and
finally find out, if it was female or male. But there are some monks
somewhere
in India who try to find themselves for a lifetime. What was striking is,
that
many of the later entries in the diary, thoughts that came to Melanies mind
during her transition whirled around in my mind right now. For a while, I
really believed, that this is the way, this is the path I have to go. But
it was just the excitement of the moment. All the doubts and fears came back
later and my mind stays in the middle. It feels like two sides try to pull
my mind apart. I'm confused and the rollercoaster goes on and on. For a
while,
I was exhausted and I feld burnt out and empty. Then fear came up, that I
lost
something wonderful. I used to hope, that someday, I would get rid of that
desire to be a girl, but as the moment came and I had lost my desire,
I missed it and all the emotions that came with it. Emotions are something
wonderful! I never want to have to be Mr Spock again. Although, I had severe
depressions, I also had most enjoyable times and I think, this comes in a
package. You can either stay in the middle, no good things - no bad things,
or you can go up and down, having great times, but also sad times. That's
life! But my mind is occupied by these thoughts. All these questions and
everytime you think, you found an answer, it is another question. The
essential things are: Am I really a girl inside or do I just like to PLAY
beeing girl? Did my mind just come up with this issue to cover up old
problems like beeing shy and non-agressive? How can I find out what to do?
What DO I DO? Why is this happeneing to me? Can I live my life with a female
sceleton in the closet, that's bumping against the door to haunt me? Could
I live a life as a girl with a male sceleton in the closet haunting me for
having killed him? What is worse? Free the mind by going the path to
womanhood? Or stay away from all the pain and suffering and continue my
stable life?
I found many hints in all the stuff I've read that let me think, that I
really am transgendered and when I look at Melanies diary, she found a lot
of these hints much later in transition. Does that qualify me to go the
same way? No. Everybody has to make the choice. I have the strange feeling,
that this is just the beginning. That I will be forced to think about this
for many more days. Oh how I wish, I could find someone, who knows more
about this. Someone, who can definitely tell me, what would be the best way
from experience or on a scientific base. But this person probably does not
exist. So I have to keep on going and keep on learning how to be a
psychologist to diagnose myself. But can I ever do this? Can I take a
look at myself from outside? Isn't that impossible?
So here I am. Confused, torn apart by emotions and my mind near the abyss
of crazyness! Yesterday I almost broke out in tears in front of my friends.
I managed to stay Mr Spock once more, but there will be a time when I can't
hold it. It will happen, that my sister says to my mom 'I wish it would
be summer and I could take a walk by the river in just a skirt and a top'
and I can't hold back my emotions. They will notice, that I did not just
have something in my eye and that something is wrong. This will be the
worst and most embarassing day in my life. And it would be the most
wonderful day in my life. I finally might be myself and have someone to
talk to. For now, I have to stay in my mental world and in the ersatzworld
of the internet to look for support.
Goodbye for now, this letter is way too long, and probably nobody is going
to read it anyway. But never give up hope.
Bye,
lonely Amy
P.S.: just some stats about me:
age: 23
gender: anatomy: male / identitiy: unknown / mental: in between /
orientation: none
living in: Germany
relation to the transgender issue: serious emotional feelings, but still in
secret
occupation: student (physics. how I hate it!)
self-classification (CD/TV/TS/...): unknown. probably CD with tendency to go
farther
computer diary pages: 60 by now, still growing fast.
######
From: anon-13729@anon.twwells.com
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: 14 Mar 1998 17:10:08 -0500
Organization: Anonymous Message Service at anon.twwells.com
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Amy,
The good news: Nobody here is going to laugh at your story. Nobody is
going to say, "Look at what this silly Dummkopf has written!" Nobody! Too
many people on this group have gone through what you've gone through, and
nearly everybody should be able to sympathize with you.
The bad news: Nobody can answer your questions but yourself. That's what
a good counsellor will do for you: help you to find the answers to your own
questions.
More good news: You got onto the Net and tried to learn aboutT*ism, and
especially you had the courage to write and post that letter. WE know it
wasn't a foolish letter, but how could *you* be sure? Taking that first
step is important.
More bad news: Taking hormones without medical supervision is dangerous.
It may not be quite as dangerous as do-it-yourself brain surgery, :-) but
hormones are nothing to fool with.
My advice: Find some kind of gender counsellor as soon as you can. There
may be other Germans, or other Europeans, on this group who can give you
names. N.B.: If you find a counsellor and (s)he wants to "cure" you,
start looking for another counsellor. You may be a genuine case of gender
identity dysphoria, or you may just be a crossdresser who'd thrilled with
the experience of spending a long time dressed. There's no "cure" for
either of these conditions, or for anything in between. A counsellor can
help you find just what you are and can help you to decide what to do in
order to live as rich and fulfilling a life as possible. Hormones might be
the answer, or maybe just a wardrobe of pretty dresses. (S)he will help
you to find out which.
Tammy
--
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######
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From: "Karen Ross" <kross@no_spam.gis.net>
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered,soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: new in here and you are the first to hear my story
Date: 15 Mar 1998 03:46:30 GMT
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Amy <donttellya@metronet.de> wrote in article
<6ee3p7$mau$1@news.metronet.de>...
...Am I really a girl inside or do I just like to PLAY
> beeing girl?
The real question, Amy...is what do you *want* - really want. You must
search your heart for the answer. You can find it nowhere else.
... How can I find out what to do?
> What DO I DO?
It's simple, but possibly not easy. Do you *want* to live the rest of your
life as a woman or as a man. Search your heart and be brutally honest with
yourself. Ignore the questions of fear, cost, risks and what others will
say or feel. First you have to know what you really *want*. Then you have
to decide what to do about it. That's when those other questions should be
considered. If you want to be a man, it simple, remain as you are but come
to grips with those other parts of you. Don't be ashamed about them. If
you want to live as a woman, do it. If you want SRS, start down that path.
When I was 23, I spend more than a month searching my heart. It was hard,
but I faced the fact that I wanted to spend the rest of my life as a woman.
I accepted that I wanted to be as close to female as possible. I faced
the fact that, for me, life would never be worth living as a male. Then I
examined the costs and faced my fears. I concluded that the price to be
myself was everything I had and everyone I loved. It was. I paid it. But
it was worth the price.
Once I accepted that I would change sex or die trying, it was fairly simple
- but it wasn't easy. I removed my beard with electrolysis. I found a
physician to prescribe hormones. Six months after I started hormones the
light of day first fell on my face as Karen. I've been Karen every moment
since. Sixteen months later I had SRS. It was the best thing I ever did.
I've never had a second though or regret. I've been Karen more than 25
years - more than half my life. Life's been good. It's been worth living.
It's not been perfect, but it's what I always wanted.
Is that path right for you? I don't know. Only you can decide. If that
is what you want, go for it. Search the web. Find your local resources.
Perhaps meet local TS or TG folks to find what you need. Don't waste the
years of your life. Find in your heart what you need and then just make it
happen.
Hugs,
Kare
######
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered,soc.support.transgendered
From: kaa@world.std.com (Karen Elizabeth A.)
Subject: Re: new in here and you are the first to hear my story
Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself)
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Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:28:24 GMT
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Karen Ross <kross@no_spam.gis.net> wrote:
> If
> you want to live as a woman, do it. If you want SRS, start down that path.
>
> When I was 23, I spend more than a month searching my heart. It was hard,
> but I faced the fact that I wanted to spend the rest of my life as a woman.
> I accepted that I wanted to be as close to female as possible. I faced
> the fact that, for me, life would never be worth living as a male. Then I
> examined the costs and faced my fears. I concluded that the price to be
> myself was everything I had and everyone I loved. It was. I paid it. But
> it was worth the price.
Dear Amy,
What Kare does not mention because she did not experience it is the
price of knowing and *NOT* facing your fears and dealing with them. If
you truely are TS that price can be frightfully high and one that you
keep on paying...
Although I did not know the word transsexual I knew from my earliest
memories. I knew right up until high school when fear, a very bad family
situation and a very masculine body made believe it was impossible to to
anything about it and I tried to bury it. I succeded for about 13 years
but a very high price. I buried my positive emotions, lost all sense of
self worth and spent those years and more (although I did not realize
it) seriously depressed and hating myself.
When I got to 27 I met another wounded (for a different reason) but very
sweet soul. I was very loney and well to make a long story short we got
married. She was the only woman I ever dated. That help for a while but
the TS stuff could only stay buried for so long. At about 30 it
resurfaced again but I was too afraid to deal with it (never thought I
could be passable) and did not want to hurt my wife who I loved (and
still do) dearly. I fought tooth and nail against it till I reached 39
when the battle and resulting depression made me non-functional and cost
me my job of 13 years.
Only when I got to that point did I start therapy... And guess what?
after all those years of a life not worth living and all that fear and
anguish - I transitioned anyway - at age 42.
I would like to say "and I lived happily ever after" but the jury is
still out. Physically I have a lot of challanges to overcome that age
has made more difficult. I have responsibilities to my wife who I love
dearly but that make things VERY complicated as well. I've lived a lot
of years in a world of my own and really don't know how to fit in as a
woman or a man. At this age even if I passed perfectly stealth (and
thus a fairly normal life which I want very much) is very difficult
because of too long an adult male history.
In short, if you are sure you are TS then start down the path ASAP. If
you are unsure make it a priority to find out - whatever the answer is.
Not being TS is fine and saves a lot of trouble for sure!!! A
knowlegable therapist can be a BIG help in sorting things out.
Good luck
-Karen A.
######
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From: "Deborah" <debor23@ibm.net>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:01:11 -0800
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In article <6ehu8h$7k5$4@news.metronet.de>, "Amy" <donttellya@metronet.de>
wrote:
>Eh - it started with this counsellor thing. Ah right - I know there is no
>cure and
>I don't want a cure. But I need to find out, what kind of freak I am and I
>have
>to know, what kind of secret I want to have for the rest of my life.
>I hope, I can find a way to counselling. But I think, I need some time off,
>before
>I do that, because this will be a hard time once more and I'm already so
>burnt
>out, that I really can't think of this very clear right now.
Amy, you're *not* a freak. Please don't think of yourself that way. You just
have a condition that not many people understand, and which some people have
trouble accepting. I think the first step towards self-understanding is to
not hate yourself for being this way (it was the first step for me).
I know it might be hard to explain to your mother about seeing a therapist,
but it might be easier than explaining about prescribing your own hormones
if she should find out about that. Try to find someone who specializes in
gender issues, and preferably is a member of the Harry Benjamin
International Gender Dysphoria Association. (The first therapist I tried who
was on my company's mental health plan, when I told her I thought I might
have Gender Identity Disorder, asked "Oh, do you mean you think you might be
gay?" She ultimately recommended that I find a gender specialist once she
understood what I was talking about.)
Seeing a therapist who specializes in gender issues is the best way to make
sure that you examine your feelings and your self in a clear way, so that
you can make good decisions about what steps to take. Unfortunately, therapy
takes money which not everyone has. If you are living in Germany again, you
might have access to a national health service, but I'm afraid I don't
really know very much about the situation there.
Please hang in there, and again, please don't hate yourself for being this
way. Many, many others are in the same boat.
Deborah
debor23@ibm.net
######
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From: "Amy" <donttellya@metronet.de>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:58:10 +0100
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Hi.
Thanks a lot for your letter.
And more, thanks a lot for READING my letter.
anon-13729@anon.twwells.com schrieb in Nachricht
<6eev80$k9v$1@twwells.com>...
>The bad news: Nobody can answer your questions but yourself. That's what
>a good counsellor will do for you: help you to find the answers to your own
>questions.
I know. But I don't want to realize it. I know, there is not easy binary
test to that,
nothing that you put your hand in and it telly you what you are. But still,
I'm
looking for that test.
Well - I spent 2 weeks trying to look inside myself, and came up with a lot
of stuff, I've never known (I even got some few memories of my childhood
back. Still not much and nothing before I was 10 or so, but better than
nothing.
I remember to have a creative trait and I remember, that I used to like arts
and reading and that I always made little drawings on my books in school).
But no answer. Now, I'm tired of thinking about his. Maybe, I should take a
week off and get a job to get away from thinking too much...
>More good news: You got onto the Net and tried to learn aboutT*ism, and
>especially you had the courage to write and post that letter. WE know it
>wasn't a foolish letter, but how could *you* be sure? Taking that first
>step is important.
Thanks. But I have to admit, that the net is a really big, anonymous place
and
it is so easy to talk to complete strangers while knowing, that I could just
leave
whenever I want without embarassment. I wish, I could just have half of that
courage in the real world. With my mother or a friend or even a counsellor.
>More bad news: Taking hormones without medical supervision is dangerous.
>It may not be quite as dangerous as do-it-yourself brain surgery, :-) but
>hormones are nothing to fool with.
I know. Heard this not for the first time. I keep it really low though and I
plan to stop
it soon. Actually, I don't think 1/2 pill a day will do anything, not good
not bad.
It probably is just a little psycho-thingie that makes me feel like I am
taking
a step in the real world, not just in the mental world.
>My advice: Find some kind of gender counsellor as soon as you can. There
I'll try to. But I'm already embarassed just to look for one in reality.
And I fear, my mom would find out that I do counselling and then she would
want to know where I spend my afternoons and there's NO WAY, that I can
tell my mom about this right now.
>may be other Germans, or other Europeans, on this group who can give you
>names. N.B.: If you find a counsellor and (s)he wants to "cure" you,
>start looking for another counsellor. You may be a genuine case of gender
>identity dysphoria, or you may just be a crossdresser who'd thrilled with
>the experience of spending a long time dressed. There's no "cure" for
>either of these conditions, or for anything in between. A counsellor can
>help you find just what you are and can help you to decide what to do in
>order to live as rich and fulfilling a life as possible. Hormones might be
>the answer, or maybe just a wardrobe of pretty dresses. (S)he will help
>you to find out which.
You know, strange thing is, that I don't WANT to be cured. Although it
brings
a lot of pain, it also brings a lot of happiness sometimes. It's like a
rollercoaster.
or a pendulum. I have not more or less good times, but the intensity is
stronger.
So, about 2 years ago, is was constantly in the middle. No deep depression,
but no joy either. Now, I can have big downs, but also big ups and it feels
better.
It feels more like life is supposed to be. And maybe, that is one of the
reasons,
why beeing a girl is so great. It's all those free emotions. No masquerade,
no
hiding emotions, no more Mr Spock! It's a mental thing. Well - there is a
body
issue, too, of course, but mostly, it's mental. For the clothes and
dressing - this
feels like a different issue. I used to dress for a long time, but mostly I
fastasized
in my head. I never really had high heels or pantyhose or all that stuff
that usually
pops up in the mind with the word 'transvestites'. Well - a little of that
stuff is good
for sexual 'amusement', but that's more for frustration. Funny thing: I have
exactly
ONE actual dress and I used it two times. I don't like dresses that much. I
like
soft, hairless legs and I like to alter my face (eyebrows) and hair.
Recently, I went out 'dressed up mentally'. What I want to say is, I went
out with
some friends, keeping in mind to think about all I'm doing. It's like I set
a part
of my mind a little bit aside to take a look at myself. So I found myself
thinking
'be a girl' and I played around with what will happen to me in reality. What
happened? Well - I found myself talking to girls and one of the girls
actually
told ME, a guy, that she was about to break up with her friend. And I tell
you
what - it felt good, although I know, they saw me as the boy, I am, just to
THINK, they would accept me was great. Probably everybody thinks, I'm a
little strange now, but I don't care! I talked with the girls most of the
two
nights (at least until my voice could not get over the noise/music anymore).
It was fun to talk, instead of just standing at the side, drinking beer with
my
friends, how I used to do all the time.
Oohps - I got a little off track now. Sorry for that.
Eh - it started with this counsellor thing. Ah right - I know there is no
cure and
I don't want a cure. But I need to find out, what kind of freak I am and I
have
to know, what kind of secret I want to have for the rest of my life.
I hope, I can find a way to counselling. But I think, I need some time off,
before
I do that, because this will be a hard time once more and I'm already so
burnt
out, that I really can't think of this very clear right now.
>
>Tammy
>
Thanks a lot, Tammy and everybody else.
I need some sleep now, hope to see you soon.
Bye
Amy
######
From: "Amy" <donttellya@metronet.de>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:22:47 +0100
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Hi, everybody.
>Amy, you're *not* a freak. Please don't think of yourself that way. You
just
>have a condition that not many people understand, and which some people
have
>trouble accepting. I think the first step towards self-understanding is to
>not hate yourself for being this way (it was the first step for me).
Oh - i guess I used a bad word.
Well - somehow, I don't feel like I hate myself. I just wonder, what is
going on here.
You know, it's like swinging back and forth between denial of my current
life and
a life as a TS.
Right now, I just think about how unrealistic all my thoughts were. I
wonder, why
I am doing all this. I'm not really considering becoming a girl, do I? But
it can't
just be some weird dream gone wild. It kept me busy for two weeks, dammit,
so
there has to be SOMETHING real behind it!
I don't think, I'm really transsexual. Or do I?
Well - even if I really have gender identity problems, I'm probaply not one
of
the severe cases.
>I know it might be hard to explain to your mother about seeing a therapist,
>but it might be easier than explaining about prescribing your own hormones
>if she should find out about that.
She'll probably not even think about ME in that case. It's just
unimaginable.
And I don't know, if I'm desperate enough to go to a therapist. I am REALLY
easy stressed by that kind of things. It frightens me way too much! Just
thinking
of going any farther than accepting my female side frightens me to death.
(Strangely
it also holds some excitement). It's like my brain operating system gives me
'overload'
messages.
I built up all these fantasies about transsexualism and transition and all
that, but now
it broke down on me and I can't believe, I seriously considered anything
like that.
Can't it be, that I'm just a frustaded boy who makes up all this TS-stuff to
find a way
to explain certain things? How much can fantasy influence my thinking?
I guess, I will have to seperate fact from fantasy. Well, crossdressing and
'be a girl'-wishes
are fact. Also, I had this since beginning of puberty. Also fact is, that I
don't know
what happened before that time. Fact is, that the drive to be a girl was
strong enough
to make me walk around like that in a national park. Right now, I would not
do this again.
Fact is, that I never had much sexual experiences and can be considered
asexual.
Fact is also, that a lot of my early crossdressing was sexually arousing.
Fantasy is
definitely, that I see myself as a girl in the mirror and I idealize my
looks in my mind.
I took some pictures to get real and It does not look the way, I thought it
would look.
If I look into the mirror, I just look at what I want to see and just at the
parts, that look
the way, I want them, just ignore all the rest like beard stubble, short
legs and wide shoulders.
Those pictures sent me back to reality and I see, that there is no real way
to be a
convincing girl. And then, I realized, what I was thinking about and all
this seems so
unreal to me. It's almost, as if I wanted to be a TS and looked for all
evidence, that
I really am TS or TG, but ignoring all the other possibilities. Why would I
do this?
Maybe because TS is something, that has a solution? I dunno!
So I'm back to the basic question here - am I really a TS or TG and what
else could I be?
>Seeing a therapist who specializes in gender issues is the best way to make
>sure that you examine your feelings and your self in a clear way, so that
>you can make good decisions about what steps to take. Unfortunately,
therapy
>takes money which not everyone has. If you are living in Germany again, you
>might have access to a national health service, but I'm afraid I don't
>really know very much about the situation there.
I have no idea either. I wouldn't even know how to find a therapist or what
it
would cost me.
Oh - I know, I would not be able to call for an appointment anyway. I
probably
would be unable to speak a single word!
Bye
Me
######
From: callmegina@aol.com (CallmeGina)
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: 17 Mar 1998 02:31:27 GMT
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Amy,
No one can tell you the answer to your agonizing question. But many of us can
attest to the consequences of muddling trhough one's 20s, 30s and even 40s
without coming to terms with a gender identity issue. So, while you have the
benefit of your youth, you don't have to force a label on yourself or rush out
and do desperate things...just please promise yourself to keep dealing with the
issue forthrightly as you are now, keep exploring and asking those questions,
and pray for the courage to act decisively when you know what's right for you.
Your experiences in the parks and elsewhere were a "wake-up call" from your
deepest self. Now it's time to take that call seriously and listen to what that
caller might really be saying! It can help a lot to have a guide/interpreter
(therapist) to help along the way. And, scary as it may seem, it's a great
opportunity to get to know yourself.
######
From: "Amy" <donttellya@metronet.de>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:11:44 +0100
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CallmeGina schrieb in Nachricht
<19980317023101.VAA25754@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>Amy,
> No one can tell you the answer to your agonizing question. But many of us
can
>attest to the consequences of muddling trhough one's 20s, 30s and even 40s
>without coming to terms with a gender identity issue. So, while you have
the
That's what I'm afraid of. I don't want this thing to occupy
all my life. If it goes on the way it is now, I'm unable to do
a lot of things. Lucky me is on a long spring break from
university now, but I can't keep concentrating on learning
stuff, because my mind is stuffed with all those weird
thoughts. If that will still be like that in summer, I'll get into trouble.
>issue forthrightly as you are now, keep exploring and asking those
questions,
>and pray for the courage to act decisively when you know what's right for
you.
I've been praying for anything like that forever,
but I never had the courage to even deal with it.
I'm usually pretty good in postponing irritating thoughts
(and actions, too, by the way). But now it's different. I
can't 'close pandoras box', I can't stop thinking.
>Your experiences in the parks and elsewhere were a "wake-up call" from your
>deepest self. Now it's time to take that call seriously and listen to what
that
>caller might really be saying! It can help a lot to have a
guide/interpreter
>(therapist) to help along the way. And, scary as it may seem, it's a great
>opportunity to get to know yourself.
It sure IS scary. Especially this two-week periode.
Now, I'm able to keep a little bit more distance.
Actually, I used to be SURE, that I have a 'gender dysphoria'
during these 2 weeks. Now, I have times, where I
consider it possible, but I have times, where I think,
I'm just a boy that has problems with his sexuality,
like everybody had in puberty. Maybe I'm just a
'slowly developing' guy, who will turn out to be
a normal boy. But then there is the evidence.
The crossdressing, the asexuality, this damned wish
to 'just be a girl', the depression, the fascination of
thinking about all this. I've read an interesting article
on the web, that states, gender identity
problems are not binary, but rather a scale.
Basically it says, that Crossdressers, gays, Transvestites,
Transgenderists and Transsexuals are all just different
expressions of the same problem (or more or less
strong intense variations). Right now, I KNOW for
sure, I'm crossdressing and what I need to know is,
if this is all there is, or if it will get stronger and
stronger and finally I'll be a 50 year old TS saying
'I wish I had...'. I've read quite some stories from
TS-people who state, that they felt their 'problem'
become bigger and stronger every year.
There's some truth in this idea about 'wake-up-calls'.
Well - I guess I had some in the past, but usually
not very long lasting. The first time that I really was
amazed afterwards ("Did I really do that?") was
8 months ago in the USA. Lasted for a day and later
even a week. Now, 3 weeks ago I had another one,
that lasted 2 weeks. Now, the call is getting distant.
I'm still thinking about all this, but not with the passion
I did in these two weeks. And as I think back at these
times, I stumble upon thoughts and ideas, I can't
imagine to have thought. It's once more me,
saying "Did I really think about that???". And even
if I seem to return to 'normal' slowly, I BET,
'it' will come back. Maybe in a few months or even
weeks. And I guess, it will be stronger. Who knows,
maybe that time, I'll have enough courage to visit a
therapist (or maybe I'll get a downer). Right now,
have to admit, I'm chickening out on this situation.
See you
Bye
Amy
######
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From: callmegina@aol.com (CallmeGina)
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: 20 Mar 1998 18:44:55 GMT
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Amy,
Postponing a decision to transition or not is by nomeans "chickening out."
It's still early in your adult life, and wouldn't it be better to spend another
decade sorting thing out than to make a huge mistake? My point was that you
don't have to force yourself into a label or category now, but that if you're
feeling as awful as you say, you should find a good therapist ASAP. That can
make the difference between spending the coming months/years/decades in a
productive quest for understanding, or merely treading water while problems
grow worse.
######
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From: "Karen Ross" <kross@no_spam.gis.net>
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered,soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: new in here and you are the first to hear my story
Date: 21 Mar 1998 16:09:22 GMT
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Karen Elizabeth A. <kaa@world.std.com> wrote in article
<19980315012824675628@ppp0a029.std.com>...
> Karen Ross <kross@no_spam.gis.net> wrote:
> > When I was 23, I spend more than a month searching my heart. It was
hard,
> > but I faced the fact that I wanted to spend the rest of my life as a
woman.
> What Kare does not mention because she did not experience it is the
> price of knowing and *NOT* facing your fears and dealing with them. If
> you truely are TS that price can be frightfully high and one that you
> keep on paying...
I did not experience it, but I anticipated what it would likely be like.
Yesterday
I posted the following to TRANSGEN. It seems to apply here:
In early 1968 I read a small article in Time Magazine that briefly
mentioned the early work with transsexuals at Johns Hopkins and Stanford.
I knew from that moment that it was what I wanted. It took three more
years to face my fears and accept the price I'd have to pay. In the summer
of 1971 I spent a couple of months reading every reference I could find.
There weren't many. When I wasn't haunting the libraries in the city and
the local University, I was alone in my room on my back in bed staring into
the darkness. (When I closed the door in my basement bedroom, it was very
dark and quiet. It was ideal for searching my soul - and I did.) When I
searched my soul, I faced the reality that I could never be happy
pretending to be a man. Until I could be honest with the world as a woman,
I had no hope for happiness. I was not a man. I could never be one. And
I sure as hell didn't *want* to be one!
Of course I was afraid. No, I was *terrified*. I knew no one who could
help me. I was unemployed, deeply depressed and an emotional basket case.
Except for my family, I had nothing. I knew that if I transitioned, they'd
disown me - and they did. With transition I might have a life worth
living. To let fear make my decision would be to choose a slow agonizing
death. Some people die a long time before they draw their last breath.
They walk the earth like zombies for many years until someone finally
buries them. I didn't want to die that way. I wanted to live - and I
have. It was the best decision I ever made.
Hugs,
Kare
######
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From: "Amy" <donttellya@metronet.de>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:43:17 +0100
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CallmeGina schrieb in Nachricht
<1998032018445500.NAA08637@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>Amy,
> Postponing a decision to transition or not is by nomeans "chickening
out."
That was not what I meant. I'm just chickening out on thinking about all
this stuff. It's so weird.
I'm not talking about really doing transition right now. This is a far
thought,
that occured to me sometimes, but more as a fantasy, not a real possibility.
Recently, by reading all this stuff on the internet, I was getting a more
real
perspective on that, but I'm not confused enough (at least not anymore) to
make stupid decisions.
>It's still early in your adult life, and wouldn't it be better to spend
another
>decade sorting thing out than to make a huge mistake?
Sure it would be! That's what I was saying - that I'm not experienced
enough to decide about anything like all that.
> My point was that you
>don't have to force yourself into a label or category now, but that if
you're
>feeling as awful as you say, you should find a good therapist ASAP. That
can
>make the difference between spending the coming months/years/decades in a
>productive quest for understanding, or merely treading water while problems
>grow worse.
Yeah well - I'll think about that again.
About this labelling. The problem with labels is, that you have to think
about
them all the time. I KNOW, that I can't label myself now. maybe I never can,
but
it's just not the way humans think. I can't just tell myself 'don't think
about it' and
stop thinking about it. It's like that psycho-game: 'Don't think about a
pink elephant
right now'. I BET, you just imagined a pink elephant. We can't control, what
we're
thinking, so I can't stop thinking about all the other stuff. In almost
every situation,
I keep analyzing myself, looking for my thoughts and behavious to find out,
what
parts are female, what are male. Heck -I can't even watch TV, take a shower,
go
out with some friends or sleep without thinking about the two sides.
You're probably right. I should seek professional help, even if it just
helps me to
go on with my life and can't help me with the 'real problem'.
Bye
Amy
######
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From: Diane Lask <lask@slip.net>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 12:13:01 +0100
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Amy wrote:
> I've read an interesting article
> on the web, that states, gender identity
> problems are not binary, but rather a scale.
> Basically it says, that Crossdressers, gays, Transvestites,
> Transgenderists and Transsexuals are all just different
> expressions of the same problem (or more or less
> strong intense variations).
Well you see a lot of things on the web. 99 44/100% of them are
untrue. Pity.
Most, if not all, of the conditions that you mention above are very
different animals. Think about it criticly for a moment: A gay person
wants to sleep with someone from the same sex. Period. A transexual
wants to be the opposite sex - but he or she may choose to sleep with
someone from either sex. One is about which sex you prefer to sleep
with in bed and the other is about which sex you prefer to be. Quite
different things don't you think?
Understanding the above shoots the article's prenise down pretty
quickly and probably points out that the author doesn't know what he's
talking about. Don't bother trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff
- there is no wheat.
There are far better books and articles written by knowledgable people
on this subject. Email me if you are interested an I will be glad to
provide the titles of a few.
######
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From: Diane <astro@slip.net>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:58:00 -0800
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Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch wrote:
> 87.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot, including <-- this one.
> And most likely also yours above.
Well Duh! It's called sarcasm. The underlying point which I trust most
os us understood, is still valid.
######
Path: ccw.ch!usenet
From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 00:17:04 +0200
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Diane Lask wrote:
> Amy wrote:
> > I've read an interesting article
> > on the web, that states, gender identity
> > problems are not binary, but rather a scale.
> > Basically it says, that Crossdressers, gays, Transvestites,
> > Transgenderists and Transsexuals are all just different
> > expressions of the same problem (or more or less
> > strong intense variations).
> Well you see a lot of things on the web. 99 44/100% of them are
> untrue. Pity.
87.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot, including <-- this one.
And most likely also yours above.
While one should certainly meet quite a bit of Web stuff with a critical
mind. I would assume a lot more than 0.56% of them to be true. :-)
50/50% I would believe. 10/90% or 90/10% I would not dispute.
> Most, if not all, of the conditions that you mention above are very
> different animals. Think about it criticly for a moment: A gay person
> wants to sleep with someone from the same sex. Period. A transexual
> wants to be the opposite sex - but he or she may choose to sleep with
> someone from either sex. One is about which sex you prefer to sleep
> with in bed and the other is about which sex you prefer to be. Quite
> different things don't you think?
> Understanding the above shoots the article's prenise down pretty
> quickly and probably points out that the author doesn't know what he's
> talking about.
I agree absolutely. Being TG is definitely a different thing to being
gay. And even TG has different dimensions (own feeling as, public image
projected, etc).
> Don't bother trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff
> - there is no wheat.
No wheat? I doubt that. Some of the personal stories are worth reading.
Some of course are crap, invented for reasons more to do with fetishism.
> There are far better books and articles written by knowledgable people
> on this subject. Email me if you are interested an I will be glad to
> provide the titles of a few.
Or post their titles to this NG. Would surely interest others as well.
Speading good information is after all the reason for soc.support.*.
--
private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/
office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch
http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/
Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence?
######
Path: ccw.ch!usenet
From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 01:40:17 +0200
Organization: My own Private Self
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Sory I didn't get the first post (news server crashed), so I an replying
to your followup.
Amy wrote (a while ago, I was digesting):
> Hi, everybody.>
> >Amy, you're *not* a freak. Please don't think of yourself that way. You
> just
> >have a condition that not many people understand, and which some people
> have
> >trouble accepting. I think the first step towards self-understanding is to
> >not hate yourself for being this way (it was the first step for me).
> Oh - i guess I used a bad word.
If you are having language problems here (I see your mailbox is in
Germany) you may discuss with me in German. But do so via private mail,
not via the NG.
> Well - somehow, I don't feel like I hate myself. I just wonder, what is
> going on here.
It may well be hate of your male part by you feminine part. I
periodically get such an "hate everything male, maleness is an genetic
illness" phases. Then it vanishes for months or even a year or two.
> You know, it's like swinging back and forth between denial of my current
> life and a life as a TS.
Sound like what I have experienced. Desire to transition on one side and
"no it is not allowed to be, the consequences would be terrible" on the
other side.
> Right now, I just think about how unrealistic all my thoughts were. I
> wonder, why
> I am doing all this. I'm not really considering becoming a girl, do I?
> But it can't
> just be some weird dream gone wild. It kept me busy for two weeks,
> dammit, so there has to be SOMETHING real behind it!
It has in phases kept me busy for a few weeks or even a month since
about 15 years ago, when I read an magazine article about an TS. Yes it
is real, so are also the consequences, both of staying male and of
transitioning.
> I don't think, I'm really transsexual. Or do I?
> Well - even if I really have gender identity problems, I'm probaply not
> one of the severe cases.
Being TG and the subcase of being TS is real. The big question is not
whether you are (I think you are) but how are you going to handle being
it. That can vary widely, staying or transition. Depending on how strong
a case you are and what your life circumstances/desires/priorities will
permit. Both have their consequences, you will have to chose the lesser
evil, from your view point.
> >I know it might be hard to explain to your mother about seeing a therapist,
> >but it might be easier than explaining about prescribing your own hormones
> >if she should find out about that.
> She'll probably not even think about ME in that case. It's just
> unimaginable.
> And I don't know, if I'm desperate enough to go to a therapist.
First get the questions about where you want to go right. Hormones are
then part of the path to _some_ of the possible places. That comes a lot
later.
> I am REALLY
> easy stressed by that kind of things. It frightens me way too much! Just
> thinking of going any farther than accepting my female side frightens me
> to death. (Strangely
> it also holds some excitement). It's like my brain operating system
> gives me 'overload' messages.
Well accepting your TG (and possibly TS hood) is the first step. That
will stop the hate bit. I only really did that after reading some Web
stuff and also a CD book I found a year ago. The over 10 years of hating
my situation could have been avoided. Now it is just discomfort with the
situation, that is a lot better (or less bad?).
> I built up all these fantasies about transsexualism and transition and
> all that, but now
> it broke down on me and I can't believe, I seriously considered anything
> like that.
> Can't it be, that I'm just a frustaded boy who makes up all this
> TS-stuff to find a way
> to explain certain things? How much can fantasy influence my thinking?
> I guess, I will have to seperate fact from fantasy.
Well it may be fantasy, but that is not what counts. What counts is if
you suffer from it. So finding a solution that fits you is the thing.
> Well, crossdressing and 'be a girl'-wishes
> are fact. Also, I had this since beginning of puberty. Also fact is,
> that I don't know what happened before that time.
I never CDed, it has long been a secret wish with me (fear of family
finding it out). The "be a woman" wishes and dreams are at least
traceable 15 years back, some cases of typically feminine behaviour even
to 20 years (to place these numbers: I am soon 33).
> Fact is, that I never had much sexual experiences and can be considered
> asexual.
Me too, I have had lots of masturbation, but no relationships. Although
I put that down to me being very shy and insecure (foreign language
child) and going to shools and jobs with very few girls, not to being TS
(after all a lesian M2F would still be into getting a girl).
> Fantasy is
> definitely, that I see myself as a girl in the mirror and I idealize my
> looks in my mind.
> the way, I want them, just ignore all the rest like beard stubble, short
> legs and wide shoulders.
I have also experienced that one. I think it is because I _am_ TS.
> Those pictures sent me back to reality and I see, that there is no real
> way to be a
> convincing girl. And then, I realized, what I was thinking about and all
> this seems so
> unreal to me.
So have I. Appart from family problems I allways regarded not passing to
be a major stumbling block. In the last year the family bit I have
started to estimate it as less bad. Also the passing bit in the last few
months.
But despite that I still am not planning on transitioning at the moment.
But given the changes in the last year who knows what will be the case
in 5 years.
> It's almost, as if I wanted to be a TS and looked for all
> evidence, that
> I really am TS or TG, but ignoring all the other possibilities. Why
> would I do this?
> Maybe because TS is something, that has a solution? I dunno!
Perhaps because you are TS? And yes it has a solution. A few solutions
actually.
> So I'm back to the basic question here - am I really a TS or TG and what
> else could I be?
TG sure, TS that you will have to find out. Note that TS does not need
to mean transitioning, get that out of your system. It just means
feminine in male (or masculine in female). Doing so will let you be less
strung up (no catastrophy as unavoidable consequence) and so help you
find your identity easier.
> >Seeing a therapist who specializes in gender issues is the best way to make
> >sure that you examine your feelings and your self in a clear way, so that
> >you can make good decisions about what steps to take. Unfortunately,
> therapy
> >takes money which not everyone has. If you are living in Germany again, you
> >might have access to a national health service, but I'm afraid I don't
>
> >really know very much about the situation there.
>
> I have no idea either. I wouldn't even know how to find a therapist or
> what it would cost me.
> Oh - I know, I would not be able to call for an appointment anyway. I
> probably
> would be unable to speak a single word!
Well if you for the beginning want to try it with do-it-yourself
therapy, here a few questions you may want to ask yourself:
- is the feminine desire so strong, it can't be left to itsself?
There are other thing to give satisfaction in life. Getting your
identity straight may be central to your focus at the moment. It may at
the moment seam like the absolute crucial thing (see Dawns suicide
ideas, yes I have had these a few times also). But it isn't. Life has
many other things in it, making the best of it overall is what counts.
- will acting like a woman do, or do you need to be a woman
Essentially: can you separate hating maleness (and particularly the
public image it has) from your thoughs of yourself (despite having a
male body).
In the first case CD (secret or open) may do, or even just exploring the
feminine range (long hair, jewelry, colorfull clothes) of being a man
(some women today like feminine men). In the second case transition may
be neccessary.
- how will family/friends take this, how important are they to you
What loss (is it too much?) does transitioning cost you vs. what does
staying with an internal conflict cost you. What is the lesser evil?
- is your sexual orientation to the other sex or to the same
For an hetero transitioning makes an homo, that reduces your choice, for
an homo it makes them hetero, expands choice.
- is a lasting relationship/marriage important to you
A successfull relationship can outweigh the internal conflicts, make
them more bearable. But expect crisises to be stronger when they air
themselves.
BTW: Germany (unlike Switzerland where I am) doesn't allow
pre-transition marriages to stay in place.
- is having children important to you, own or adoption
SRS is essentially castration. Adoption may not be an option to an
transitioned TS. So that has to be part of the cost comparison.
And very important: IIRC you said you are 18 or 19. TAKE TIME. There is
no reason to rush. Even if you take 5 years to decide and then
transition you will still only be 25/26 when finished. That is still
only 1/3 of life behind you.
Myself? I am soon 33, hetero, and a milder case of TS. I would like an
female relationship and a family. I have up to now in every TS crisis
phase ended up deciding to stay male. YMMV.
At least today I accept being TS. So I don't fear being outed and can
actually post this with full identity.
Perhaps the best advice: become your best frient, stop hating yourself.
--
private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/
office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch
http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/
Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence?
######
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From: "Zarah" <nospam.zarah.s@bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:14:50 +0200
Organization: aye davanita
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Dear Franklin,
Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch schrieb in Nachricht
<351EDBE1.DF5910D5@ccw.ch>...
< snipped a lot of supportive stuff and some useful questions>
>BTW: Germany (unlike Switzerland where I am) doesn't allow
>pre-transition marriages to stay in place.
It is possible in Germany to keep a pre-existing marriage after transition
and after srs. But in doing so, it will not be possible to have your sex
changed (new sex added) in the birth register, but it is possible to have
your forenames changed to one that fits the gender you live in. Those two
possibilities are independant. So you can have your forenames changed alone
(no medical intervention is necessary, but TS has to proven), or after srs
you may change your name and the sex entry in the birth register.
Medical interventons as HRT and SRS and coverage by health insurrance is
independant of any legal adjustments according to the Transsexuals' Act. In
theory it is possible to undergo a complete transition (srs and hrt
included) and still have the old forename and the old sex assignment. Though
I've never heard of such a case.
It is a little complex here, since according to german laws the forename of
a person must show the sex of the person unequivocally. The only exception
is when you fall under the Transexuals' Act (TSG, Law concerning the change
of forenames and the establishment of Sex Attribution in special cases).
Actually the practical difference between this two solutions (change of
forenames §1ff TSG, and change of sex attrubition §8ff TSG) is minimal.
'Official' sex change will enable you to marry according to the new sex, and
you can retire according to the regulations of the new sex. That's it.
Since the change of forenames or sex according to the TSG, both gives you
special disclosure protection (§5 Prohibition of disclosure, e.g you do not
have to disclose sex and/or name change to an employer), your entitled to
change all official papers (birth certificate, passport, social insurrance
number and so on) to show the sex according your forenames. In other
situations where your sex is relevant (Imprisonment, Hospital etc.) you are
treated according to the physical characteristics. Which means that in
general you are treated according to the gender that you live in after you
started an 'official' HRT.
Actually the possibility of the TSG to only change your forenames was meant
to give people the chance to continue a pre-existing marriage without
inventing same sex marriages, and still provide a legal recognition of their
new gender.
Cheers
Zarah
_______________________________________
For mailing, please remove the '.nospam' header:
nospam.zarah.s@bigfoot.com
Um zu antworten, mußt Du das 'nospam.' aus der
email-Adresse entfernen
_______________________________________
######
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From: "Amy_w" <amy_w@gmx.net>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 01:37:39 +0200
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Diane Lask schrieb in Nachricht <351E2CBD.1F56CB77@slip.net>...
>> problems are not binary, but rather a scale.
>> Basically it says, that Crossdressers, gays, Transvestites,
>> Transgenderists and Transsexuals are all just different
>> expressions of the same problem (or more or less
>> strong intense variations).
> Well you see a lot of things on the web. 99 44/100% of them are
>untrue. Pity.
> Most, if not all, of the conditions that you mention above are very
>different animals. Think about it criticly for a moment: A gay person
>wants to sleep with someone from the same sex. Period. A transexual
>wants to be the opposite sex - but he or she may choose to sleep with
>someone from either sex. One is about which sex you prefer to sleep
>with in bed and the other is about which sex you prefer to be. Quite
>different things don't you think?
Oh yes, sure.
I guess, I shouldn't listen to that. I know for a long time (since I started
getting information about this), that sexual orientation is not nececarily (?)
connected to gender identity. I myself don't feel gay, but I know, I have
a gender Identity problem of some way.
O.K. - so just forget about gays for now. (I don't even know, if the author
of the article, I've read did really mention them in the same context).
ut the other things??? Aren't they connected? Some people state, that
TS is a very different thing than crossdressing or transvestitism. Others
say, they are just different intense versions of the same thing. I've also
the impression, that ALL TS did crossdress at some time (uh - of course,
they did ;-) ) and some of them even did everything that would be considered
typical for a TV. So what's this labelling all about. Isn't it all similar
somehow?
(NOT talking about gays and female impersonators, of course)
> There are far better books and articles written by knowledgable people
>on this subject. Email me if you are interested an I will be glad to
>provide the titles of a few.
Yeah - I tried to find some in german, but they seem to suck.
I hate german writing style. It's so unemotional, technical, scientific and
boring.
They will probably explain matters of biology and psychological science over
several hundred pages, without really providing any help.
I've ordered one book, called 'gender workbook' or so, but It'll take some more
WEEKS to deliver and I had to pay about $10 postage!
I also thought about buying 'true selves', as this was recommended by some
people here in the NGs.
Bye
Amy
######
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From: "Amy_w" <amy_w@gmx.net>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:31:49 +0200
Organization: none
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Hi.
Oh, this one is really old ;-)
But nice to hear from someone anyhow.
Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch schrieb in Nachricht
<351EDBE1.DF5910D5@ccw.ch>...
>Sory I didn't get the first post (news server crashed), so I an replying
>to your followup.
>> >Amy, you're *not* a freak. Please don't think of yourself that way. You
>> Oh - i guess I used a bad word.
>If you are having language problems here (I see your mailbox is in
>Germany) you may discuss with me in German. But do so via private mail,
>not via the NG.
Nah - no language probs. I'm not too bad in english, I spent a while in the US
and can understand almost everything, unless it gets really complicated.
I just forgot about the fine-tune. I used freak in a different way as some
people
understand it. I used sarcasm ;-)
>It may well be hate of your male part by you feminine part. I
>periodically get such an "hate everything male, maleness is an genetic
>illness" phases. Then it vanishes for months or even a year or two.
Hmm- I have to admit, that I hate some of the maleness in general.
But it's also a feeling of 'female is good' (or better).
Again, this depends on what 'phase' I'm in. Right now, for example,
I don't think about maleness too much and just cherish all female
behavious and attributes. But tonight, I may get a depression again
and doubt, I'm mentally stable. This 'oscillation' is, what confuses me most.
>> You know, it's like swinging back and forth between denial of my current
>> life and a life as a TS.
>Sound like what I have experienced. Desire to transition on one side and
>"no it is not allowed to be, the consequences would be terrible" on the
>other side.
No, I'm not at that ´point, I think. I don't think too much about the direct
consequences of transition. I think about my identity, my past and what
would be AFTER transition. I don't even want to think about the reality
of a transition, but I'd like to know, if I would be happier aft(h?)erwards.
>Being TG and the subcase of being TS is real. The big question is not
>whether you are (I think you are) but how are you going to handle being
>it. That can vary widely, staying or transition. Depending on how strong
>a case you are and what your life circumstances/desires/priorities will
>permit.
O.k:, that's what I'm really looking for, the Intensity. I think of 'TS' as
someone,
who is a very strong case and desires to be changed physically.
In my opinion, all this is basically the same condition - beeing a CD, a TG, a
TS
(and maybe even TV) are just different intese cases. (I have to say again: GAY
IS DIFFERENT!)
>First get the questions about where you want to go right. Hormones are
>then part of the path to _some_ of the possible places. That comes a lot
>later.
Right. I think, I was rather stupid. I regained some control now and
stopped this stupid thing. I just thought, I could buy me some time...
>Well accepting your TG (and possibly TS hood) is the first step. That
>will stop the hate bit. I only really did that after reading some Web
>stuff and also a CD book I found a year ago. The over 10 years of hating
>my situation could have been avoided. Now it is just discomfort with the
>situation, that is a lot better (or less bad?).
Hmm - yes sort of. I don't know. I've done that for so long now and I can see,
what happened in the end. But maybe, KNOWING about TG and
still accept the situation the way it is may be a way. However, most
of the others have told me, that denial will not help. And I don't want
to end up in the unlucky situation of beeing 40 and in the same situation
as now (although my body would at that time probably make the decision
for me, what to do...)
>Well it may be fantasy, but that is not what counts. What counts is if
>you suffer from it. So finding a solution that fits you is the thing.
Well - if it is just fantasy, then ignoring it, or finding something else to do
may be the solution. But if it is a real thing, that will bother me for
the rest of my life, I'll have to find a way to deal with it.
>I never CDed, it has long been a secret wish with me (fear of family
>finding it out). The "be a woman" wishes and dreams are at least
>traceable 15 years back, some cases of typically feminine behaviour even
>to 20 years (to place these numbers: I am soon 33).
Well - I only do CD in private, although I have had a few crazy public
situations when I was far far away from any person I'd ever known.
Most of it is secret, but some of my 'feminine behaviour' slips in my
everyday life and I got a couple of strange comments and looks.
It's not only behaviour, but also a bit of clothing and appearance.
This started about 6 months ago. Before that, I could keep everything
in secret, but at that time, I couldn't resist bringing something of
it in my regular life. I wonder, where this will end...
>> Fact is, that I never had much sexual experiences and can be considered
>> asexual.
>Me too, I have had lots of masturbation, but no relationships. Although
>I put that down to me being very shy and insecure (foreign language
>child) and going to shools and jobs with very few girls, not to being TS
>(after all a lesian M2F would still be into getting a girl).
Yeah - I thought of that too. I know, I'm very shy and there are hardly any
girls in university. But it's not just real girls. I never collected playboy
mags
or watched some of the latenight movies and I had a few girls that actually
seemed to like me a lot. I went out with them and we had a lot of fun talking,
drinking, watching movies, but I never thought about sex. It was just
a close friendship. It must have been horrible for at least one of them, who
seemed to really love me, but I didn't respond to her signals. I realized
that long afther it was over. But I tested my feelings with guys, too and
I don't think, I'm gay. There is one exception: I had a few fantasies about
beeing a girl and having a boyfriend. But that happened usually when I was
either very depressed or had drunk too much.
>So have I. Appart from family problems I allways regarded not passing to
>be a major stumbling block. In the last year the family bit I have
>started to estimate it as less bad. Also the passing bit in the last few
>months.
Sorry - this was one of the things, I didn't get. Guess my english is not as
good as I thought ;-)
>But despite that I still am not planning on transitioning at the moment.
>But given the changes in the last year who knows what will be the case
>in 5 years.
That's what I'm thinking too.
If I look back at the last year and especially at the last months, weeks, I see
a tendency, that scares me. I get 'flashes' a lot more often.
What do I want to say with 'flashes'?
Stuff like going out in public in a US national park half a year ago, or
buying female shoes or even spend 100+DM on makeup. Stuff, I would
normally never do, because I would be way too embarrassed and ashamed.
But when I get one of these flashes, I just do it. I'm still nervous, but I can
do things, I never thought, I could do. And afterwards, I get scared about,
what I just did! (I'm not going to be schizo, am I?)
>> It's almost, as if I wanted to be a TS and looked for all
>> evidence, that
>> I really am TS or TG, but ignoring all the other possibilities. Why
>> would I do this?
>Perhaps because you are TS? And yes it has a solution. A few solutions
>actually.
Perhaps - but how can I be sure? I think, if I would look for evidence of
beeing a normal male boy, I would find as much as for beeing TS...
>Well if you for the beginning want to try it with do-it-yourself
>therapy, here a few questions you may want to ask yourself:
Actually, I'm doing that for some weeks now. I think, I'm going
to order a few books about this.
>- is the feminine desire so strong, it can't be left to itsself?
>There are other thing to give satisfaction in life. Getting your
>identity straight may be central to your focus at the moment. It may at
>the moment seam like the absolute crucial thing (see Dawns suicide
>ideas, yes I have had these a few times also). But it isn't. Life has
>many other things in it, making the best of it overall is what counts.
Right now, it is really strong. And it's always there.
I know, I can have situations, that will draw my attention, like the 6 months
in the college in USA - I hardly ever thought about CD/TS in that time (but
I didn't know, what TS is at that time either). Or a beautiful day snowboarding
in the mountains - this will do it, too.
But usually it hits back after that and it seems to get stronger everytime...
I haven't had suicide attempts yet - I'm way too scared of that and I would
kill Amy, too, right? And she deserves a chance, as the people in the NG assured
me.
>- will acting like a woman do, or do you need to be a woman
This one, I don't know. Actually, this one is the major question!
It's the question if crossdressing will be the choice, or if transition will be
the thing!
>Essentially: can you separate hating maleness (and particularly the
>public image it has) from your thoughs of yourself (despite having a
>male body).
Tough sentence...
>In the first case CD (secret or open) may do, or even just exploring the
>feminine range (long hair, jewelry, colorfull clothes) of being a man
>(some women today like feminine men). In the second case transition may
>be neccessary.
Hmm - I'm actually trying this right now. I have long hair, a weird way to
dress,
weird shoes (platforms ;-) ), always shave and recently, I even changed my
eyebrows to a new shape and let my nails grow a little bit longer and of course,
some of my behaviour changed too. Some of the things, I do consciously to push
the limits, others come just natually and are almost beyond my control (esp.
under
influence of alcohol ;-) - no, I'm not alcoholic).
But this makes everything just worse, because I get fixed on these things and I
can't
stop thinking about it. Maybe it would be best to just drop all that, but I
can't
stand that either. Tried it once (beard, different clothes...etc) and failed
after 3 days.
Just couldn't stand it anymore...
O.K. here we go again, I start babbeling.
If you just would have known this before ;-) - I'm well known for my pages long
mails...
I'll try to keep it short now.
>- how will family/friends take this, how important are they to you
>What loss (is it too much?) does transitioning cost you vs. what does
>staying with an internal conflict cost you. What is the lesser evil?
Well - staying here is surely better for social stuff, but it might blast my
mind.
Actually, I think, I might loose some friends. I'm not someone with a whole
lot of friends, but I'm not sure about the ones, I have. They usually show a
very trans/homophobic behaviour ('fags','dykes',..etc), but this may be just
for show. Some of them are pretty old for not having a relationship, so it
might be, they are gay themselves (or even TG?)
About family - I would be pretty sure, my mom would be understanding. She
always is. But this is tough stuff, so I'm not sure. My dad would probably want
to kill me, but I see him only once a month anyway.
About Job: I don't know, what will happen at the university, but I would not
be kicked out. I would just end up in a tough role as a female
scientist/physicist.
But girls have to deal with that, too.
>- is your sexual orientation to the other sex or to the same
>For an hetero transitioning makes an homo, that reduces your choice, for
>an homo it makes them hetero, expands choice.
Didn't I tell you, I have none? Well - I don't know what would happen.
But I think, sex.o. is not too important. It can change over time, too.
>- is a lasting relationship/marriage important to you
>A successfull relationship can outweigh the internal conflicts, make
>them more bearable. But expect crisises to be stronger when they air
>themselves.
>BTW: Germany (unlike Switzerland where I am) doesn't allow
>pre-transition marriages to stay in place.
Never thought about this too much, but I think, having a lasting
partner in life would be nice. It probably would not be enough,
to 'cure' me from beeing TG though. It may help me with dealing
with it, if the partner is supportive though. But this means to find
a partner, who can accept this. Same thing with transitioned TS - they
have to find someone (a guy, too), that understands them and is
willing to live with that past.
Both are hard ways to go, but there are no other choices. Denial and
secrecy are not an option.
>- is having children important to you, own or adoption
I never thought about his one. I always thought, I never would
want children, but thinking about it now - I think, having a child
would bring some joy to an aging person. Of course, I know, that
post-ops can't have children (unless with artificial methods maybe,
or with cloning). I don't know, if adopting a child would be a
good option. Now this is a new question, I have to think about.
>And very important: IIRC you said you are 18 or 19. TAKE TIME. There is
>no reason to rush. Even if you take 5 years to decide and then
>transition you will still only be 25/26 when finished. That is still
>only 1/3 of life behind you.
Actually, I'm already 23. Still not a whole lot older, but already going
close to beeing 25.
Time is good for getting knowledge and experience, but time is also
valuable for the matter of youth. And as I said, I don't want to deal with
this too late to be 'passable'
>Myself? I am soon 33, hetero, and a milder case of TS. I would like an
>female relationship and a family. I have up to now in every TS crisis
>phase ended up deciding to stay male. YMMV.
Well - good luck then.
I hope you can handle it. Maybe some day, it won't work out that way.
I've heard tons of stories of people who did that and ended up transitioning
with 40,50 or even 60...
>Perhaps the best advice: become your best frient, stop hating yourself.
Yeah. If I can combine the happiness that my female side brings me into
my male life, I could be happy. I really love the Amy-part in me and I never
would consider killing myself as long as 'she' is still there...
Gee - a long letter - again. I always do that. Sorry
Byeeee
Amy
( I'm considering setting up a website for Amy. Any tips or comments?)
+Please excuse poor english - I'm still german, not american, as most of you
+try to reply to Amy_w@gmx.net or Amy_w@gmx.de or Amy_s_w@usa.net
+I'm still trying to build up a good connection, so please do multiple shots,if
+you don't get an answer. I'll reply to EVERY letter to me. If you don't get a
+reply, I didn't get the mail, so please re-send it. Thanks a lot. Bye Amy
# We are, who we are, who we are, #
# But what are we, when we are, who we are? #
#
# I believe, I can fly
# I believe, I can touch the sky
# but I'm just on the run
# and as I turn
# I can feel the warmth of the sun
# and then I burn
######
Path: ccw.ch!usenet
From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:23:48 +0200
Organization: My own Private Self
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Amy_w wrote:
>
> Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch schrieb in Nachricht
> >If you are having language problems here (I see your mailbox is in
> >Germany) you may discuss with me in German. But do so via private mail,
> >not via the NG.
>
> Nah - no language probs. I'm not too bad in english, I spent a while in
> the US
> and can understand almost everything, unless it gets really complicated.
> I just forgot about the fine-tune. I used freak in a different way as
> some people understand it. I used sarcasm ;-)
OK. I am the other way round. I was born in England and lived there the
first 6 1/" years, but then had all my education and adult life in
Switzerland. So my complex thinking tends to be German in structure,
also missing fine details in English, missing sarcasm being a regular
:-)
> >It may well be hate of your male part by you feminine part. I
> >periodically get such an "hate everything male, maleness is an genetic
> >illness" phases. Then it vanishes for months or even a year or two.
>
> Hmm- I have to admit, that I hate some of the maleness in general.
> But it's also a feeling of 'female is good' (or better).
> doubt, I'm mentally stable. This 'oscillation' is, what confuses me
I am similar in that. The "female is better" is actually fairly
constant, and I beat it with an "feminine is better, I an feminine"
attitude. The "male/masculine is bad" comes in phases. Momentarily I am
not in one of these, the last was ca 1 year ago.
> >it. That can vary widely, staying or transition. Depending on how
> >strong
> >a case you are and what your life circumstances/desires/priorities will
> >permit.
> O.k:, that's what I'm really looking for, the Intensity. I think of 'TS'
> as someone,
> who is a very strong case and desires to be changed physically.
> In my opinion, all this is basically the same condition - beeing a CD, a
> TG, a TS
> (and maybe even TV) are just different intese cases. (I have to say
> again: GAY IS DIFFERENT!)
Hmmm, and here terminology gets in the way. I used TS in the sense of
missfitting sex<->gender. This I regard as something that comes in
varying levels of intensity, making CD, TG or SRS the possible
solutions. Perhaps I should correct my terminology TS->??, SRS->TS, but
you see I am missing an term for the ?? in there.
> >Well accepting your TG (and possibly TS hood) is the first step.
> >Now it is just discomfort with
> >the situation, that is a lot better (or less bad?).
>
> Hmm - yes sort of. I don't know. I've done that for so long now
> still accept the situation the way it is may be a way. However, most
> of the others have told me, that denial will not help.
Denial never works for any serious problem. Accepting that you are TS
(or ??, see above) is crucial to finding peace with yourself. I was
refering more to the possibility of accepting staying "secret feminine
in male" as an fourth alternative to CD, TG or SRS, that gets seldom
mentioned. But there again it may simply be the worst, so noone spreads
it.
Yes, it is hard (in the phases) but it may for some be the lesser evil
than the other 3. Personal situation count.
> And I don't want to end up in the unlucky situation of beeing 40
> and in the same situation as now (although my body would at that
> time probably make the decision for me, what to do...)
Yes that is exactly the problem I an facing at the moment (being 10
years older that you).
> >Well it may be fantasy, but that is not what counts. What counts is if
> >you suffer from it. So finding a solution that fits you is the thing.
>
> Well - if it is just fantasy, then ignoring it, or finding something
> else to do
> may be the solution. But if it is a real thing, that will bother me for
> the rest of my life, I'll have to find a way to deal with it.
Well, even if it is a fantasy it will stay with you, fantasies are from
deep down subconcious, they can dominate a person just as much as
physical features. So you need to find your choice amoung the 4
possibilities anyway, whether it is brain wiring of mental preferences
in origin.
> >(after all a lesian M2F would still be into getting a girl).
> Yeah - I thought of that too. I know, I'm very shy and there are
> hardly any girls in university. But it's not just real girls. I
> never collected playboy mags or watched some of the latenight movies
Not all real (masculine) men do that either.
> and I had a few girls that actually seemed to like me a lot.
Common with TS (or ??). I often get called cute by girls (usually behind
my back).
> I don't think, I'm gay.
You don't look it as far as I can tell.
> >So have I. Appart from family problems I allways regarded not passing to
> >be a major stumbling block. In the last year the family bit I have
> >started to estimate it as less bad. Also the passing bit in the last
> >few months.
>
> Sorry - this was one of the things, I didn't get. Guess my english is
> not as good as I thought ;-)
No, that was _the fault of my_ english. Thinking a complex sentance in
German and then translating it - at 1.20am. Anyone got a cure for Usenet
addiction?
I was trying to say is, that I have in the last year started to regard
the chance of losing my family (most important mother) and the chance of
not passing as less large than I had been regardeing them for the last
10-15 years.
> >But despite that I still am not planning on transitioning at the
> >moment. But given the changes in the last year who knows what
> >will be the case in 5 years.
>
> That's what I'm thinking too.
> If I look back at the last year and especially at the last months,
> weeks, I see a tendency, that scares me. I get 'flashes' a lot more
> often. What do I want to say with 'flashes'?
Weeks (and even a 1-3 months) show phases to strongly. I would suggest
using 1 or 2 years as period to detect a if there ia an lasting change.
> Stuff like going out in public in a US national park half a year ago, or
> buying female shoes or even spend 100+DM on makeup. Stuff, I would
> normally never do, because I would be way too embarrassed and ashamed.
> But when I get one of these flashes, I just do it. I'm still nervous,
> but I can do things, I never thought, I could do. And afterwards, I
> get scared about, what I just did! (I'm not going to be schizo, am I?)
Doesn't look look schizo. Shows more accepting being TS (??) and wanting
to live it out.
> >> It's almost, as if I wanted to be a TS and looked for all
> >> evidence, that
> >Perhaps because you are TS? And yes it has a solution. A few solutions
> >actually.
> Perhaps - but how can I be sure? I think, if I would look for evidence
> of beeing a normal male boy, I would find as much as for beeing TS...
Sure. What on econcentrates on shapes ones views. But it is also what
shapes ones desires and so ones suffering ,if they are not reached.
Changing ones focus is very difficult, that is what some of the
religious "treatments" to homosexuality do.
This is also a point I am not sure on. Sometimes I think it is just a
mental thing, an imagination. Those that say "Gender Dysphoria" also
think it is so, in all cases of TS.
The important thing is not whether it is "real". But getting to live
with what you are. That includes your particular mental state. Whether
it is in the genes or in the mind doesn't matter. How to live with it is
the question. Staying, CD, TG or SRS? Or more likely: suffer from
staying split, being an secret CD fearing disclosure, public ridicule
for open CD/TG or discrimination for SRS. You will have to chose the
lesser evil.
> >the moment seam like the absolute crucial thing (see Dawns suicide
> >ideas, yes I have had these a few times also). But it isn't. Life has
> I haven't had suicide attempts yet - I'm way too scared of that and I
> would kill Amy, too, right? And she deserves a chance, as the people
> in the NG assured me.
For me it was entirely the fear of it going wrong. There were not just
TS but also work and society issues involved.
> >- will acting like a woman do, or do you need to be a woman
>
> This one, I don't know. Actually, this one is the major question!
> It's the question if crossdressing will be the choice, or if transition
> will be the thing!
There is only one way to find that out: Try it for a time (say 1 year).
> >Essentially: can you separate hating maleness (and particularly the
> >public image it has) from your thoughs of yourself (despite having a
> >male body).
>
> Tough sentence...
German thinking structures strike again.
> >In the first case CD (secret or open) may do, or even just exploring
> >the feminine range (long hair, jewelry, colorfull clothes) of being
> >a man (some women today like feminine men). In the second case
> >transition maybe neccessary.
> Hmm - I'm actually trying this right now. I have long hair, a weird way
> to dress, weird shoes (platforms ;-) ), always shave and recently, I
>
> But this makes everything just worse, because I get fixed on these
> things and I can't stop thinking about it. Maybe it would be best to
> just drop all that, but I can't stand that either. Tried it once
> (beard, different clothes...etc) and failed after 3 days.
> Just couldn't stand it anymore...
There again doing it may show that you path at least lays in TG. That
staying or CD are out of the choice. 4 possibilites narrowed down to 2.
> O.K. here we go again, I start babbeling. If you just would have known
> this before ;-) - I'm well known for my pages long mails...
> I'll try to keep it short now.
Psychologists get payed for listening to babbling :-) And this _is_
soc.SUPPORT.tg.
> >- how will family/friends take this, how important are they to you
> >What loss (is it too much?) does transitioning cost you vs. what does
> >staying with an internal conflict cost you. What is the lesser evil?
>
> Actually, I think, I might loose some friends. I'm not someone with a
> whole lot of friends, but I'm not sure about the ones, I have. They
> usually show a very trans/homophobic behaviour ('fags','dykes',..etc),
> but this may be just for show.
Usually not for show. Such behaviour shows deep down faults. That type
_will_ dispise an drop you.
> Some of them are pretty old for not having a relationship, so it
> might be, they are gay themselves (or even TG?)
Or just incapable of an relationship, fear intimacy. Is common today.
> About family - I would be pretty sure, my mom would be understanding.
> She always is. But this is tough stuff, so I'm not sure. My dad would
> probably want to kill me, but I see him only once a month anyway.
Me it is the mother that is the problem. She _says_ things like "be
yourself" and so on, but small things in her behaviour betray that there
may be trouble. Father is also not relevant enough to be decisive.
> About Job: I don't know, what will happen at the university, but I
> would not be kicked out. I would just end up in a tough role as a
> female scientist/physicist. But girls have to deal with that, too.
University/academia is usually no problem. Private firms are a problem,
fear of losing customers and so on...
> >- is your sexual orientation to the other sex or to the same
> >For an hetero transitioning makes an homo, that reduces your choice,
> >for an homo it makes them hetero, expands choice.
>
> Didn't I tell you, I have none? Well - I don't know what would happen.
> But I think, sex.o. is not too important. It can change over time, too.
You did. I was more thinking of your preferences for when you start to.
That is one thing that is likely to happen, most non-relationship people
come out of the shell sometime in life. I am stared going through that
one about 2-3 years ago.
> >A successfull relationship can outweigh the internal conflicts, make
> >them more bearable. But expect crisises to be stronger when they air
>
> Never thought about this too much, but I think, having a lasting
> partner in life would be nice. It probably would not be enough,
> to 'cure' me from beeing TG though.
I was not thinking of it as solving TS. More of the solution to TS
getting in the way of an relationship and so creating another problem.
> >And very important: IIRC you said you are 18 or 19. TAKE TIME. There is
>
> Actually, I'm already 23. Still not a whole lot older
> And as I said, I don't want to deal with this too late to be 'passable'
But that still gives you about 10 years for deciding.
> >Myself? I am soon 33, hetero, and a milder case of TS. I would like an
> >female relationship and a family. I have up to now in every TS crisis
> >phase ended up deciding to stay male. YMMV.
>
> Well - good luck then.
> I hope you can handle it. Maybe some day, it won't work out that way.
> I've heard tons of stories of people who did that and ended up
> transitioning with 40,50 or even 60...
So have I, that is what is giving me trouble. I haven't got another 10
years to decide :-(
--
private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/
office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch
http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/
Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence?
######
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From: "Amy_w" <amy_w@gmx.net>
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:27:22 +0200
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Hi again.
I've sent you a copy of this as email, 'cause I'm not sure, if the NG folks
want to read this kind of long psycho mails anymore....
especially as it has gotten rather long again.
If you don't want to answer it, because it's so long, drop me a note,
ans I'll see if I can reduce it. I've got plenty of time during spring break
and I understand, that other people have better things to do....
>I am similar in that. The "female is better" is actually fairly
>constant, and I beat it with an "feminine is better, I an feminine"
>attitude. The "male/masculine is bad" comes in phases. Momentarily I am
>not in one of these, the last was ca 1 year ago.
Rich now, I'm not doing very well in dealing with all this stuff.
I'm not sure, if I really have a gender identity problem, or if it's just
some weird kind of hobby, some strange fantasy, that I invented to
get away from my life and to just do something, instead of beeing
bored. Maybe, I just want to get more attention by others and come
up with some weird stories to get it.
What bothers me a little bit is, that I've chosen CD/TS/TG as fantasy.
Why that? Why not some other story, that is less 'freaky' (see the ' !!!:)
>Hmmm, and here terminology gets in the way. I used TS in the sense of
>missfitting sex<->gender. This I regard as something that comes in
>varying levels of intensity, making CD, TG or SRS the possible
>solutions. Perhaps I should correct my terminology TS->??, SRS->TS, but
>you see I am missing an term for the ?? in there.
How I hate terminology. O.K., this might be a problem in understanding.
I'll tell you, how I understand the terms: (How I've seen them in use in
many mails and websites). TG is transgendered and is basically
everybody with a little bit of 'gender dysphoria'. TS is someone, who
actually (wants to) change(s) the body. CD is just the act of wearing
opposite gender clothes. TV is someone, who does CD for sex.
Now these labels are probably not 'correct', but that's how I've seen them
in use so many times and got used to it...
>refering more to the possibility of accepting staying "secret feminine
>in male" as an fourth alternative to CD, TG or SRS, that gets seldom
>mentioned. But there again it may simply be the worst, so noone spreads
>it.
Hmm. Right now, I think, it might be a sloution. I just don't think, my desire
to be female is strong and constant enough to drive me into something crazy
like SRS. I'm feeling the end of one of these 'phases' coming and I don't think,
I have to behave female all the time. Why would I want to do that. Shit, this is
crazy....
>Yes, it is hard (in the phases) but it may for some be the lesser evil
>than the other 3. Personal situation count.
It sure is hard sometimes. The problem is, that right now, as I get out
of one of these phases, I can't imagine, how hard it was at that time.
I can't believe all the things, I did and wrote. I even wanted to set up
a homepage....
>Yes that is exactly the problem I an facing at the moment (being 10
>years older that you).
That's not too bad, I guess. Still better than 40 or 50. But you understand,
what I was thinking there. But as I said, I don't think doing one of the
'hardcore things' will help so much. I know, this will always be with me and
there's no way out. As you said, one has to choose the lesser evil, so why
should
I choose the evil that will destroy my social bonds and cause a lot of pain.
Why not just stay in secrecy or maybe 'come out' and dress up for fun, maybe
even be a drag queen sometimes. Just handle it with humour and get over it...
>Well, even if it is a fantasy it will stay with you, fantasies are from
>deep down subconcious, they can dominate a person just as much as
>physical features.
I know, I've always had a strong fantasy, at least in my childhood.
But fantasies can be changed, right? So maybe I can change the
fantasies in a way, they don't require any changes in the physical world...
>> and I had a few girls that actually seemed to like me a lot.
>Common with TS (or ??). I often get called cute by girls
I did, too. Usually some other girl then says 'don't call him cute,
boys don't like that'.
>No, that was _the fault of my_ english. Thinking a complex sentance in
>German and then translating it - at 1.20am. Anyone got a cure for Usenet
>addiction?
:-))) If you look at some of my mails, you'll see some with 3:??am on them....
>I was trying to say is, that I have in the last year started to regard
>the chance of losing my family (most important mother) and the chance of
>not passing as less large than I had been regardeing them for the last
>10-15 years.
So your TS/TG (whatever word) may be getting stronger? Strong enough
to make the negative aspects seem less important????
>> If I look back at the last year and especially at the last months,
>> weeks, I see a tendency, that scares me. I get 'flashes' a lot more
>> often. What do I want to say with 'flashes'?
>Weeks (and even a 1-3 months) show phases to strongly. I would suggest
>using 1 or 2 years as period to detect a if there ia an lasting change.
Ok. Short review of the last 2 years.
t-2 years : I am told to be able to go to the USA for a year (college). Great
fantasies
about beeing alone for a year and able to dress whenever I
want.
Some fantasies about living as a girl in some place, nobody
knows me.
t-1.5 years: I go to the US, had a lot of fun, friends and interesting lectures
and
forgot about CD.
t-1 year: A girl has a crush on me. I like her, but I don't feel, like I'm
really in love.
Still great time to talk, watch movies and go out. Feel a little
bit proud
about finally having a 'girlfriend'.
t-10 months: College time is over, I live 2 weeks in a single appartement, had
a severe case of shopping mania and started CD big time.
t-9 months : Took a long (20+hour) drive in new wardrobe, shaved legs, came
up with 'Amy' as a name.
t-8 months : Did almost the same again, but this time in a public place in a
Nat. Park.
t-6 months : Serious denial
t-5 months : Noticed a lot of feminine behaviour seeping in my normal life, get
more
interested in fashion and how I look like (I used to be a
slob for years).
t-1.5 months : Getting worse, do CD a lot at home, get the chance to go out on a
costume party.
t-1.5 to t-2 weeks : Having serious thoughts about beeing TS/TG, spent tons of
hours on the
internet, reading, writing, questioning,...etc.
t-2 weeks : Getting calm. Notice, I'm kind of stuck in my thinking process.
t-0 : seem to get out of this phase again.
So this is the story so far. Before that time, I notice a tendency to get out of
the shell,
I've built up during Schooltime.( I used to be somewhat a nerd.). Future? Who
knows...
>> But when I get one of these flashes, I just do it. I'm still nervous,
>> but I can do things, I never thought, I could do. And afterwards, I
>> get scared about, what I just did! (I'm not going to be schizo, am I?)
>Doesn't look look schizo. Shows more accepting being TS (??) and wanting
>to live it out.
(Sorry - I guess I did it again;-) I'm not REALLY thinking of beeing schizo...)
I'm not sure, if it is acceptance, but more the opposite. If I would be
accepting, I would not have to be scared afterwards. Maybe, it just
'breaks through' sometimes. I hope, I can control that, before it gets
me into trouble...
>> Perhaps - but how can I be sure? I think, if I would look for evidence
>> of beeing a normal male boy, I would find as much as for beeing TS...
>Sure. What on concentrates on shapes ones views. But it is also what
>shapes ones desires and so ones suffering ,if they are not reached.
Yeah, but if the shapes are just not there, suffering will be unavoidable.
I've recently looked through the family photo album and noticed a
lot of the things, I was looking for at that time (feminine things). But
at the same time, I ignored all the other pictures, that might show
different things, like me playing with 'boys toys'. I was looking
for something, that prooves, that I always have been a girl, because
that was, what I wantd to find.
>the question. Staying, CD, TG or SRS? Or more likely: suffer from
>staying split, being an secret CD fearing disclosure, public ridicule
>for open CD/TG or discrimination for SRS. You will have to chose the
>lesser evil.
Tough decision. There seems to be no easy way out. Just suffering in a
different way. Now, I can see, why some people think about suicide.
If that feeling of 'no way out' gets too strong....
>> >the moment seam like the absolute crucial thing (see Dawns suicide
>> >ideas, yes I have had these a few times also).
>> It's the question if crossdressing will be the choice, or if transition
>> will be the thing!
>There is only one way to find that out: Try it for a time (say 1 year).
Well - that's a huge step. Doing that RLT is hard, especially because
basically it is already a pert of a transition. If you can do that, you
already get all the social breaks, loose friends and jobs. When you
can do that RLT, there's not much left to hold back from completing it...
especially as living a year AS a woman means to 'dress up', to wear
a costume everyday to make the body look female (wigs, chest,beard,...etc)
(But I've heard of some people, who actually turned back during RLT).
>> But this makes everything just worse, because I get fixed on these
>> things and I can't stop thinking about it. Maybe it would be best to
>> just drop all that, but I can't stand that either. Tried it once
>> (beard, different clothes...etc) and failed after 3 days.
>> Just couldn't stand it anymore...
>There again doing it may show that you path at least lays in TG. That
>staying or CD are out of the choice. 4 possibilites narrowed down to 2.
And those are...
I guess, a week ago, I would have been happy to hear, that staying a CD
is out of choice, but now, I'm not sure about it. These damned phases...
>> Actually, I think, I might loose some friends. I'm not someone with a
>> whole lot of friends, but I'm not sure about the ones, I have. They
>> usually show a very trans/homophobic behaviour ('fags','dykes',..etc),
>> but this may be just for show.
>Usually not for show. Such behaviour shows deep down faults. That type
>_will_ dispise an drop you.
You're probably right - sigh.
But I've never had too many friends, so I guess, I could live with a few less...
But as I think about it - isn't almost everybody a little bit transphobic???
>Or just incapable of an relationship, fear intimacy. Is common today.
I'm probably part of that, too...
>Me it is the mother that is the problem. She _says_ things like "be
>yourself" and so on, but small things in her behaviour betray that there
>may be trouble.
Hm - I hope, I'll be able to notice these kind of little things, too, if they
should appear somewhere...
>University/academia is usually no problem. Private firms are a problem,
>fear of losing customers and so on...
Probably another point in thinking about taking too much time...
>That is one thing that is likely to happen, most non-relationship people
>come out of the shell sometime in life. I am stared going through that
>one about 2-3 years ago.
Hmm - I wonder, what kind of person, I will be.
But again, I think sexual preference is not so important for gender identity.
>>relationship
>I was not thinking of it as solving TS. More of the solution to TS
>getting in the way of an relationship and so creating another problem.
That's true. I've heard many sad stories about married people, who lost
their families by 'coming out'. That fear is probably even stronger, than
any of my fears at this time. I never could deal with that...
>> Actually, I'm already 23. Still not a whole lot older
>But that still gives you about 10 years for deciding.
Why 10 years?
What's happening in 10 years?
>> Well - good luck then.
>> I hope you can handle it. Maybe some day, it won't work out that way.
>> I've heard tons of stories of people who did that and ended up
>> transitioning with 40,50 or even 60...
>So have I, that is what is giving me trouble. I haven't got another 10
>years to decide :-(
Sorry, I didn't want to pull you down. I was just worried, that this will
happen to any of us. And you see, if I wait another 10 years, I'll be in the
same situation, you are in, right now and you can see by yourself, how
hard it will be then.
I guess, if I would be 30 or older, I would not have the courage to think
seriously about anything like that. Even now, it freaks me out, what
will happen, if I see myself as a 30+ male in a dress - I can just imagine.
Genetics are not very kind with our family and if I have just someting
from my dad, I'll be almost bald and have a lot of body hair at that time.:-((
Gee - another huge mail....
Hope you don't mind it.
Bye
Amy?
######
Path: ccw.ch!usenet
From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 03:29:17 +0200
Organization: My own Private Self
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Amy_w@gmx.net wrote:
>I've sent you a copy of this as email, 'cause I'm not sure, if the NG
>folks want to read this kind of long psycho mails anymore....
>especially as it has gotten rather long again.
Well it _is_ an support group. Support by seeing that others are in the
same place, that we are not "freaks". And it sure beats the "will I
still be married" flame war, hands down.
As for copying: my news feed is stable at the moment, so I can rely on
getting posts. Having them duplicate on mail just adds modem time. And
Swiss phone charges make even the German Telekom seem cheap :-(
>If you don't want to answer it, because it's so long, drop me a note,
>ans I'll see if I can reduce it.
No problem. I find that answering others questions prompts me to think
about my views and helps me towards understanding myself.
>I've got plenty of time during spring break
>and I understand, that other people have better things to do....
Well I only work 3 days a week, so it depends mainly on which day I
recieve a message. This one was in the batch I recieved on Sunday
evening, and as Monday is free I can afford the late night to answer it
and others (it is now 03.15am).
>I'm not sure, if I really have a gender identity problem, or if it's just
>some weird kind of hobby, some strange fantasy, that I invented to
>get away from my life and to just do something, instead of beeing bored.
Here you will have to look at your feelings. Does being feminine feel
"right", does it feel like becoming complete, as if a weight falls from
you. Not being ashamed of being TG will help.
OTOH also not being ashamed of admitting other problems (family,
aimlessness in life, job related) will be needed to reach a balanced
result.
>What bothers me a little bit is, that I've chosen CD/TS/TG as fantasy.
>Why that? Why not some other story, that is less 'freaky' (see the ' !!!:)
_If_ it is a fantasy. Then you will have most likely chosen it on the
accidental timing of your desire for a fantasy and whatever thoughts
life was sending through you at the time. Also of the possibilities
suggested, a "freaky" one would make the best one for attraction.
>>refering more to the possibility of accepting staying "secret feminine
>>in male" as an fourth alternative to CD, TG or SRS, that gets seldom
>>mentioned. But there again it may simply be the worst, so noone spreads
>>it.
>Hmm. Right now, I think, it might be a sloution.
As I said, it is the solution I have been using for the last 15 years.
It has the problem of never knowing if an other would have been better,
OTOH it has the advantage of being the least costly family, friend and
job wise, that has been the point stopping me.
>I just don't think, my desire to be female is strong and constant
>enough to drive me into something crazy like SRS.
Well, I would not call SRS crazy, just very expensive. So I want to
avoid that variant if possible. And so far I see I seem to be capable of
living without being bodily female. It is just the statements of those
transitioning at 40/50 that make me unsure.
>I'm feeling the end of one of these 'phases' coming and I don't think,
>I have to behave female all the time. Why would I want to do that.
>Shit, this is crazy....
Real gg women don't act female all the time. Just more likely female on
the average. This is one of those TG myths.
>>Yes, it is hard (in the phases) but it may for some be the lesser evil
>>than the other 3. Personal situation count.
>It sure is hard sometimes. The problem is, that right now, as I get out
>of one of these phases, I can't imagine, how hard it was at that time.
>I can't believe all the things, I did and wrote. I even wanted to set up
>a homepage....
The classic looking back at it and thinking "how could I" effect.
Things look so important when one looses the forrest for all the trees.
Later when one sees the forrest one can not understand why those trees
where so riveting.
>As you said, one has to choose the lesser evil, so why should
>I choose the evil that will destroy my social bonds and cause a lot of
>pain. Why not just stay in secrecy or maybe 'come out' and dress up for
>fun, maybe even be a drag queen sometimes. Just handle it with humour
>and get over it...
If you can get allong with this version it is certainly the easier.
generally find that simply being and living as feminine man is possible.
So I try to push the envelope for male emancipation.
OTOH that may be one of the differences we here in Europe have over the
Americans. Accepting (by self) of compromises and (by society) of
feminine men (long hair, jewelry).
>But fantasies can be changed, right? So maybe I can change the
>fantasies in a way, they don't require any changes in the physical
>world...
Sure they can, but the price can be larger than that of going allong
with them. So it is again down to chosing the lesser evil.
>>> and I had a few girls that actually seemed to like me a lot.
>>Common with TS (or ??). I often get called cute by girls
>I did, too. Usually some other girl then says 'don't call him cute,
>boys don't like that'.
:-) Even in the middle of seriousness humour can strike.
>>I was trying to say is, that I have in the last year started to regard
>>the chance of losing my family (most important mother) and the chance of
>>not passing as less large than I had been regardeing them for the last
>>10-15 years.
>So your TS/TG (whatever word) may be getting stronger? Strong enough
>to make the negative aspects seem less important????
I don't think so. Both duration, intensity and time appart of phases
seem to be staying stable. No. it is more that the signals comming from
my mother suggest that she is changing, Such as no opposition when I was
looking at an too-feminine-for-a-man pullover pattern and said "bad that
a man can not wear this", or accepting when after a fight with my father
I had a crying session (this was while the last phase 1 year ago).
>>Weeks (and even a 1-3 months) show phases to strongly. I would suggest
>>using 1 or 2 years as period to detect a if there ia an lasting change.
>Ok. Short review of the last 2 years.
So one small phase 2 years ago and then one big one the last 10 months.
That is longer than I ever had, I would assume my largest phase to be
about 3-6 months, and of course all only in the mind, I never actually
CDed for fear of being caught.
>Before that time, I notice a tendency to get out of the shell, I've
>built up during Schooltime.( I used to be somewhat a nerd.).
That is also happening in me since about 2-3 years.
>>> Perhaps - but how can I be sure? I think, if I would look for evidence
>>> of beeing a normal male boy, I would find as much as for beeing TS...
>>Sure. What on concentrates on shapes ones views. But it is also what
>>shapes ones desires and so ones suffering ,if they are not reached.
>I've recently looked through the family photo album and noticed a
>lot of the things, I was looking for at that time (feminine things). But
>at the same time, I ignored all the other pictures, that might show
>different things, like me playing with 'boys toys'. I was looking
Known as wishfull thinking. But don't forget that gg women also do
masculine things (my sister more than I do, real tom boy). What really
counts is the relative frequency of doing each.
And far more how one feels with the male and female "image" that society
has created. I often get through with simply thinking that the social
image of men simply doesn't apply to me, so I then simply ignore it.
>>the question. Staying, CD, TG or SRS? Or more likely: suffer from
>>staying split, being an secret CD fearing disclosure, public ridicule
>>for open CD/TG or discrimination for SRS. You will have to chose the
>>lesser evil.
>Tough decision. There seems to be no easy way out. Just suffering in a
>different way. Now, I can see, why some people think about suicide.
>If that feeling of 'no way out' gets too strong....
Yes, tough. I know :-) Yes, that is what brings up the suicide thoughts,
at least it was the 2 or 3 times I got into them.
>>> It's the question if crossdressing will be the choice, or if transition
>>> will be the thing!
>>There is only one way to find that out: Try it for a time (say 1 year).
>Well - that's a huge step. Doing that RLT is hard, especially because
>basically it is already a pert of a transition. If you can do that, you
Oops there I was imprecise. I was not thinking of RLT, just of going a
year or so with trying the "just CDing in secret" version, to see if
that will do for you. But I see you have been doing that for 6 10
months. OTOH that was just 1 phase, perhast try it for annother 2
phases.
>(But I've heard of some people, who actually turned back during RLT).
That is what the RLT is for.
>>There again doing it may show that you path at least lays in TG. That
>>staying or CD are out of the choice. 4 possibilites narrowed down to 2.
>And those are...
If staying and CD are out, then it can only be Transgenderism (like
Laura) or SRS (like Julie).
> I guess, a week ago, I would have been happy to hear, that staying a CD
>is out of choice, but now, I'm not sure about it. These damned phases...
So it is back to the choice of 4. "Wer die Wahl hat, hat die Qual"
(German sying "who has the choce, has the pain"). But also, as staying
and CD are back in, you can still avoid TGism or SRS if you don't like
them.
>But as I think about it - isn't almost everybody a little bit
>transphobic???
Everyone fears the unknown, T* is an unknown for many. And people fear
"mental cases" and T* is that for many.
>>I was not thinking of it as solving TS. More of the solution to TS
>>getting in the way of an relationship and so creating another problem.
>That's true. I've heard many sad stories about married people, who lost
>their families by 'coming out'. That fear is probably even stronger, than
>any of my fears at this time. I never could deal with that...
That is exactly what makes all outing versions so undesirable for me.
>>> Actually, I'm already 23. Still not a whole lot older
>>But that still gives you about 10 years for deciding.
>Why 10 years? What's happening in 10 years?
Being 33. About the time one can IMHO still successfully transistion
(like Julie did) after that passing becomes increasingly harder (like
for Karen).
>>So have I, that is what is giving me trouble. I haven't got another 10
>>years to decide :-(
>Sorry, I didn't want to pull you down. I was just worried, that this will
>happen to any of us. And you see, if I wait another 10 years, I'll be
It didn't pull me down. 15 years of being TG have lead to quite a bit of
"thick skin".
>I guess, if I would be 30 or older, I would not have the courage to think
>seriously about anything like that. Even now, it freaks me out, what
>will happen, if I see myself as a 30+ male in a dress - I can just imagine.
You will when you are that age. When a phase comes, you will start over
again evaluation your reasons for the decision at the end of the last
phase, that is age independant. So far I have allways ended up affirming
the decisions, I hope that is also age independant.
Actually there exist dress styles that will fit elder men. As a hobby I
look into medieval history and many of the more "brainy" men wore
dresses, not T*, but normal priests, kings, etc.
>Genetics are not very kind with our family and if I have just someting
>from my dad, I'll be almost bald and have a lot of body hair at that time.:-((
Thats one problem I don't have. I and my sister are exact copies of the
opposite sex parent. It is realising that over the last few years, that
makes me regard passing as a possibility. Actually as children we were
more fitting the same sex parents, so I am becoming more the mother. It
is more the family, friend, job cost that keeps me from not wanting to
transition.
>Gee - another huge mail....
>Hope you don't mind it.
Not at all. If it did, I would not have invited you to :-)
--
private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/
office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch
http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/
Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence?
######
Newsgroups: soc.support.transgendered
Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!peer.news.u-net.net!u-net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!liv!lucs!steff
From: steff@csc.liv.ac.uk (Stephanie Nile)
Subject: Re: New in Here and You are the First to Hear my Story
Sender: news@csc.liv.ac.uk (News Eater)
Message-ID: <Er1xBv.29q@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:19:07 GMT
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References: <6ekclu$cav$1@news.metronet.de> <19980317023101.VAA25754@ladder03.news.aol.com> <6es2vr$bsn$1@news.metronet.de> <351E2CBD.1F56CB77@slip.net> <351EC860.39D09B82@ccw.ch>
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
In article <351EC860.39D09B82@ccw.ch>, Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch writes:
> Diane Lask wrote:
> > Amy wrote:
> > > I've read an interesting article
> > > on the web, that states, gender identity
> > > problems are not binary, but rather a scale.
> > > Basically it says, that Crossdressers, gays, Transvestites,
> > > Transgenderists and Transsexuals are all just different
> > > expressions of the same problem (or more or less
> > > strong intense variations).
> > Well you see a lot of things on the web. 99 44/100% of them are
> > untrue. Pity.
>
> 87.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot, including <-- this one.
> And most likely also yours above.
>
> While one should certainly meet quite a bit of Web stuff with a critical
> mind. I would assume a lot more than 0.56% of them to be true. :-)
>
> 50/50% I would believe. 10/90% or 90/10% I would not dispute.
>
> Most, if not all, of the conditions that you mention above are very
> different animals. Think about it criticly for a moment: A gay person
> wants to sleep with someone from the same sex. Period. A transexual
> wants to be the opposite sex - but he or she may choose to sleep with
> someone from either sex. One is about which sex you prefer to sleep
> with in bed and the other is about which sex you prefer to be. Quite
> different things don't you think?
> Understanding the above shoots the article's prenise down pretty
> quickly and probably points out that the author doesn't know what he's
> talking about.
I agree absolutely. Being TG is definitely a different thing to being
gay. And even TG has different dimensions (own feeling as, public image
projected, etc).
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No point being *too* dogmatic (or simplistic) though ... It just doesn't
help anyone.
[Steph]
"Ne parlez jamais de vous-meme :
se louer c'est vanite ;
se blamer, c'est stupidite"
Umberto
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